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[NHW] RV740 ES using GDDR5 - Page 2

post #11 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnywinkles View Post
Yea, back on topic. Can someone explain why a smaller bus is better? Does it just use less silicon or what?
It uses less portion of a chip, resulting in savings of die space.

In addition to that, a certain bus size also normally has prerequisites of given die spaces, due to the pad size limitations. 512-bit GPUs mostly never get below 400mm^2, 256-bit GPUs are hard to squeeze below 200mm^2 (although 2 chips, G71 and RV670, did that), and 256-bit GPUs with GDDR5 MCs (RV770) are slightly bigger in pad limitations too.

It's recommended that you use a wide bus for performance, but GDDR5 gives you leverage in terms of bandwidth. Aka 3600Mhz GDDR5 on 128 === 1800Mhz GDDR3 on 256 (which is the sweet spot for most of us now)

But the main point of RV740 using both of these would be cost savings (in the LONG term). RV740 could offer equivalent performance of say, a standard G92 (8800GT, GTS even maybe), while having almost half the die size of the 55nm G92b.


That is all. And see, proper English usage.
    
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post #12 of 41
reduces production costs.
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post #13 of 41
Thank you. +rep
    
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post #14 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by AN HERO View Post
It uses less portion of a chip, resulting in savings of die space.

In addition to that, a certain bus size also normally has prerequisites of given die spaces, due to the pad size limitations. 512-bit GPUs mostly never get below 400mm^2, 256-bit GPUs are hard to squeeze below 200mm^2 (although 2 chips, G71 and RV670, did that), and 256-bit GPUs with GDDR5 MCs (RV770) are slightly bigger in pad limitations too.

It's recommended that you use a wide bus for performance, but GDDR5 gives you leverage in terms of bandwidth. Aka 3600Mhz GDDR5 on 128 === 1800Mhz GDDR3 on 256 (which is the sweet spot for most of us now)

But the main point of RV740 using both of these would be cost savings (in the LONG term). RV740 could offer equivalent performance of say, a standard G92 (8800GT, GTS even maybe), while having almost half the die size of the 55nm G92b.


That is all. And see, proper English usage.
Ive never been good with any kind of ram so could you explain to me how a higher frequency gddr5 can use a 64 bit and still perform equally to a lower frequency gddr3 using a 128 bit? Ive always thought the higher frequency it is the more bandwidth you need.
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post #15 of 41
Quote:
Sure you did. I believe you....
Wait, I'll show you in a sec... then you believe me.
post #16 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasoncho92 View Post
Ive never been good with any kind of ram so could you explain to me how a higher frequency gddr5 can use a 64 bit and still perform equally to a lower frequency gddr3 using a 128 bit? Ive always thought the higher frequency it is the more bandwidth you need.
No it's the opposite.
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post #17 of 41
Think of it this way, a memory bus is analgous to a highway. A four lane highway with a speed limit of 60mph will have the same traffic as a two lane highway with a speed limit of 90mph but the benefit of the two lane highway is that it costs much less to pave two lanes as opposed to four lanes.
    
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post #18 of 41
Quote:
Ive never been good with any kind of ram so could you explain to me how a higher frequency gddr5 can use a 64 bit and still perform equally to a lower frequency gddr3 using a 128 bit? Ive always thought the higher frequency it is the more bandwidth you need.
In "x bits", "x" refers to the amount of "lanes" you can have bits travelling on. It's like a 64 bs 128 lane road... you can have the equal amount of cars travelling on the 64-lane road providing the cars move twice as fast (=twice the clockspeed). GDDR5 achieves clocks twice as high as GDDR3, so essentially each one of those "lanes" transfer two bits in the time it takes for GDDR3 to transfer one bit. In this case bandwidth = bus width * clockspeed.

Now, obviously a road with half the lanes is cheaper to manufacture, so what ATi is doing is having their cars moving twice as fast as NVIDIA on a road with less lanes so to speak...
post #19 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasoncho92 View Post
Ive never been good with any kind of ram so could you explain to me how a higher frequency gddr5 can use a 64 bit and still perform equally to a lower frequency gddr3 using a 128 bit? Ive always thought the higher frequency it is the more bandwidth you need.

Think of it as a square water pipe having water flowing in a direction.

Frequency = Flow speed of water

Bus width = Width of pipe (actually cross sectional area of pipe if we want to get technical)

If you halve the pipe width, how are you going to get the same volume of water in a specific amount of time? Double the speed.
    
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post #20 of 41
900Hz? No way!
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