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[WTAE4] RIAA Sues Hospitalized Teenager - Page 10

post #91 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubernewhacks View Post
The RIAA has not rigged juries. Thats ridiculous. And you should not speak for all 29,000ish who have not had their cases gone mainstream
They all have a common voice. And as far as the jury thing goes, the dirty tactics they used in court have been exposed some time ago

Quote:
I never said they were. I did say however that at this point in time they are being used as proof, and you cannot determine personal characteristics such as gender age race etc from a 12 digit number.
IPs =/= proof. If they were put into a courtroom with a tech competent judge and/or jury, this nonsense wouldn't make it past day 1.


Quote:
Off topic, and they both are breaking the law.
So you believe in absolute punishment? Would you support the cutting of a thieves hands then? The punishment should fit the crime, and in all of these cases, if does not. Even the amount they settle out of court for is ridiculous.


Quote:
It does not matter what your interpretation of the word piracy is, the legal definition of Piracy is what you do when you "copy" copyrighted material.
Exactly. It's copying, not stealing.

Quote:
I have pirated a lot of games in my time. I do know how it works. However, the only recent game I have pirated *I define recent as the last few years since I am only 16* was to try out and see if I like it. If I play for an hour or so and I like the game I buy it. Otherwise I uninstall it. I used the Fallout 3 example. I pirated the game, liked it so much that I finished it, and then proceeded to go to Microcenter and bought the Special Edition for $75 complete with Pip-Boy Bobblehead and lunch box.
Then why make claims that DRM serves as a roadblock to some people?

Quote:
I have not. Link me a reliable source.
They were leaked internal documents from the RIAA and another company that uses illegal tactics, mediadefender. They were being spread via torrents for a while, I'm sure they're still out there, but torrentfreak had an article some time back where they dissected them all and picked out the most interesting parts. Feel free to go dig it up should you be interested.

Quote:
I never said that I believed Torrent sites were illegal. Although I believe that it is unethical, from a legal standpoint they do nothing wrong which is why they almost always win the legal battles and why the RIAA goes after individual users since they are the ones who can be legally be held accountable.
Yes, but one thing they can't beat is the RIAA hitting them with countless lawsuits that have no legal ground, forcing them into bankruptcy Nice tactic, eh?

Quote:
Alright then. Buy songs off itunes.
Low quality, DRM ridden garbage. Price premium for non DRM versions, but still low quality. FLAC or get out.

Quote:
Buy singles CD's.
Are virtually nonexistent for the type of albums I've described.

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But if you do not feel that the product is worth the price then do not buy it. You are not entitled to steal something if you believe it is priced too high.
Quote:
Ok. That is true but that is unrelated. The sales slump because of piracy,
Sales slump because the content does not meet the consumers expectations. If they can not get it at a price they feel is worth it, many will just go pirate it.

Quote:
and the material is clearly not bad since so many people pirate it. Especially since the most pirated songs tend to be the most popular ones since people do not pirated songs they believe are bad and purchase ones they believe are good as if they were bad there would be no need to pirate them and they could simply purchase all the songs they wanted legally.
Bad? Sometimes. But is the content noteworthy? No. Is it worth the price tag they set? Absolutely not. Once again, in lack of an alternative, people will turn to piracy.

Good example of this is mirror's edge. $60 for a game that is 6 hours long? No thank you. Is it worth a playthrough? Probably. But at that price? Hell no. This game is gonna top the piracy charts when it comes out for the PC. Personally, I'll pick it up when it hits the $10 bargain bin.

Quote:
They do get a percentage, and a case could be made that they do not get enough. But that has nothing to do with your justification of stealing. Also, does that mean that it is a good idea for them to get even less money? The "fatcats", as you put it, are not the only ones hurt when people do not buy CD's.
Knowing that a good 90-95 cents on the dollar of every album sale goes directly into their pocket does not sit well with me. If I want to support an artist, I will go to their concerts, not further lining the pockets of these crooks.


Quote:
So we can steal music and movies but not games? Why? Because video game developers experience less piracy and do not sue as much?
Because the game industry produces higher quality material, as a whole. And yes, they don't sue people. They are not trying to financially rape the very people they hope to sell material to. The RIAA/MPAA view people as nothing more than walking meatbags with money for them to take.

Sure, the industry has its parasitical companies like EA that produce crappy games, are interested in nothing but money, and ruin anything they come in contact with.. but they are the minority, not the majority. The music/movie industry is defined by greed and corruption. That is not something I will support.


Quote:
That was in Scotland???
Did you even read the article? That was not the RIAA
My bad I tend to lump all these abhorable organizations into one group. They're a pandemic.
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post #92 of 119
This is awful especially during christmas.
    
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post #93 of 119
This is sad. The RIAA is going after people who "pirate" 8 songs. They need to pick their battles with the people that have thousands of illegally acquired songs.
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post #94 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liability
They all have a common voice. And as far as the jury thing goes, the dirty tactics they used in court have been exposed some time ago
I have yet to see the common voice of those who have not spoken. And Bribing Juries is not dirty tactics, it is far worse than that. And I have never ever seen that exposed, although there are bad things the RIAA has done, but Bribing Juries does not make sense as not only would it be more than a "exposed some time ago" but it would be all over the news. However, since they have never won a court case I am not sure how the hypothetical bribed juries are relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liability
IPs =/= proof. If they were put into a courtroom with a tech competent judge and/or jury, this nonsense wouldn't make it past day 1.
Once again, I am not saying that they are proof. I am saying, however, that they cannot determine any information which can be used to discriminate, which is what you put upon them when you state that they go after the poor and the weak and the elderly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liability
So you believe in absolute punishment? Would you support the cutting of a thieves hands then? The punishment should fit the crime, and in all of these cases, if does not. Even the amount they settle out of court for is ridiculous.
Of course not. That is absurd and not at all what I said. I said that it is the law which states that you can be fined massive amounts of money if you break copyright law and it is there choosing to settle for much less than the standard copyright infringement fines which they could settle for if they so felt the need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liability
Exactly. It's copying, not stealing.
If under US Law it constitutes copyright infringement then it is illegal. You may not like the law, or agree with the law, but you still have to abide by the law and if you dislike the law why do you blame the RIAA? They did not come up with the idea of patent infringement? It has been laid out for as long as people have filed for Patents or Trademarks or Copyrighted material which was present long before computers even existed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by liability
Then why make claims that DRM serves as a roadblock to some people?
It does serve as a roadblock. When I am trying to test a game it pisses me off. It is annoying. You can get around it but it is a pain. It clearly serves as a roadblock as there are cases in which it serves as a roadblock to those who legally purchase it so clearly it must serve as a roadblock to those who don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liability
They were leaked internal documents from the RIAA and another company that uses illegal tactics, mediadefender. They were being spread via torrents for a while, I'm sure they're still out there, but torrentfreak had an article some time back where they dissected them all and picked out the most interesting parts. Feel free to go dig it up should you be interested.
I have no doubt that they have done bad things, in fact I agree that they have done bad things as I know quite a lot about the RIAA. However, that is not really relevant to our discussion or to the OP as that is the legal and ethical standpoint of their tactics not if it is justified or if they purposefully target.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liability
Yes, but one thing they can't beat is the RIAA hitting them with countless lawsuits that have no legal ground, forcing them into bankruptcy Nice tactic, eh?
Well Limewire won the lawsuit from the RIAA/MPAA/etc and many others have won so that isn't relevant since as I have previously stated few websites lose RIAA lawsuits. The legal ground was case specific, Napster lost, Limewire Survived, Suprnova lost, The Pirate Bay survived, and thus should be evaluated on a case by case basis and clearly cannot be labeled generically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liability
Low quality, DRM ridden garbage. Price premium for non DRM versions, but still low quality. FLAC or get out.
I could not agree more. I use CD's also. But I do not pirate my FLAC music, which is what the discussion was on, the Piracy of music and piracy as a whole. I go out and buy CD's which is completely legal. But as I had said before, and what I meant by the iTunes example, is that you should find alternatives or not get the songs at all as opposed to pirating them which is from a legal standpoint illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liability
Are virtually nonexistent for the type of albums I've described.
Fair enough. But that was not a blanket solution I was just adding on to the point that I had eventually, which was you need to do it legally or understand that if you choose to knowingly risk breaking the law you must accept the fact you can suffer consequences as dictated by Federal Law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liability
Sales slump because the content does not meet the consumers expectations. If they can not get it at a price they feel is worth it, many will just go pirate it.
Alright, but it is still illegal. You are missing the point. If you do not like the product you do not buy it, dislike of something does not make it ok to break the law or to take others work without permission or compensation as per the requirements stated by the creators of the copyrighted material in quesiton.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liability
Bad? Sometimes. But is the content noteworthy? No. Is it worth the price tag they set? Absolutely not. Once again, in lack of an alternative, people will turn to piracy.

Good example of this is mirror's edge. $60 for a game that is 6 hours long? No thank you. Is it worth a playthrough? Probably. But at that price? Hell no. This game is gonna top the piracy charts when it comes out for the PC. Personally, I'll pick it up when it hits the $10 bargain bin.
I agree. But instead of breaking the law wait until it hits $10. I do not believe it's worth $60 although I am extremely interested so I will wait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liability
Knowing that a good 90-95 cents on the dollar of every album sale goes directly into their pocket does not sit well with me. If I want to support an artist, I will go to their concerts, not further lining the pockets of these crooks.
Once again, I agree. I go to concerts and believe that one should contribute the most money possible to artists. But that does not mean that you should not contribute any because someone else gets the most. However, if every person who pirated songs supported the artists of whom they pirated the music then we would not have a problem and the RIAA would not be suing individuals but since they do not support the artists the RIAA does sue and we do have an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liability
Because the game industry produces higher quality material, as a whole. And yes, they don't sue people. They are not trying to financially rape the very people they hope to sell material to. The RIAA/MPAA view people as nothing more than walking meatbags with money for them to take.
That is an opinion not a fact. If the RIAA/MPAA wanted to rape them then they would force them to pay the full fine AND sue all 30,000. They would use all the extra money to build up their legal division even more and sue everyone and fight out every case. But they are not since it is impossible to stem the tide that way as when you are sued for millions of dollars no-one will settle, the court cases will take forever, and the RIAA will not stop piracy it will just ruin a few select peoples lives. The point of these lawsuits, the changes in sales with digital single songs, the creation of sites like imeem enabling you to freely listen to music legally and while still supporting the artist, albeit less, is to attempt to stop piracy so that people get paid for their work like they deserve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liability
Sure, the industry has its parasitical companies like EA that produce crappy games, are interested in nothing but money, and ruin anything they come in contact with.. but they are the minority, not the majority. The music/movie industry is defined by greed and corruption. That is not something I will support.
That is because of the extent to which music and movies are pirated as opposed to games. Music and movies are easy to pirate whereas if people want to play online it is extremely hard as you have to constantly update cracks and cracked servers which get shut down or attempt to organize people with Hamachi, which is also a pain and usually lags. Both of these I have done and know from personal experience. Also, it is much harder to pirate games than it is music and movies. That is why. The ease of music and movie piracy is why it has become such a problem and why the RIAA is trying to stop it so that the music industry can continue to grow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liability
My bad I tend to lump all these abhorable organizations into one group. They're a pandemic.
No problem, just make sure that if you are going to have sources to support your ideas that are not facts make sure they line up.
Edited by ubernewhacks - 12/23/08 at 4:02pm
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post #95 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mortimersnerd View Post
This is sad. The RIAA is going after people who "pirate" 8 songs. They need to pick their battles with the people that have thousands of illegally acquired songs.
They do. It's just most people who pirate on that level tend to settle as it is extremely hard to prove that you have not pirated thousands of songs as opposed to someone who may have only pirated a few songs or done so unknowingly which is why they take the cases to court and have always beat the RIAA. The ones who are truely bad don't bother trying to fight the lawsuit since they are going to have a very hard time winning and if they lose they are faced with an insanely high possible fine as the Judge can lay down $150000 per copyright violation *ie per song* if he so chooses, which is a lot if you have pirated thousands of songs.
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post #96 of 119
They go after people who can't defend themselves because they know they will loose against anyone who knows how the law works. There are thousands of people out there that have terabytes and even petabytes of illegal downloads yet they go after someone who is sharing 10 files. That's like a cop writing a ticket for someone who's parked further than 18" inches away from a curb while there is a shooting going on right down the street. Basically I'm saying they should focus more on the people on the top rather than the people on the very bottom who don't make any difference.
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post #97 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by aod2002 View Post
They go after people who can't defend themselves because they know they will loose against anyone who knows how the law works. There are thousands of people out there that have terabytes and even petabytes of illegal downloads yet they go after someone who is sharing 10 files. That's like a cop writing a ticket for someone who's parked further than 18" inches away from a curb while there is a shooting going on right down the street. Basically I'm saying they should focus more on the people on the top rather than the people on the very bottom who don't make any difference.
If you have pirated thousands of songs and were given the option to settle for a significantly less amount of money as opposed to going to court then what would you do?
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post #98 of 119
double posted by accident, please remove.
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post #99 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubernewhacks View Post
If you have pirated thousands of songs and were given the option to settle for a significantly less amount of money as opposed to going to court then what would you do?
Edit:
I was talking about all the people who distribute terabytes or more that never get caught. In this case there are no settlements because they were never caught. Of course these people know what they are doing and protect themselves against the RIAA/MPAA by hosting files in countries where the same laws don't apply. They need to work on their relationships with these countries and stop making themselves look bad so they can get more cooperation to stop the real threats.
Edited by aod2002 - 12/23/08 at 4:35pm
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post #100 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerack View Post
The original CD was copied, then sent as a additional copy (illegal) to a third-party. Taa daa!
But the 3rd party isn't at fault, yet the 3rd party is getting sued here.

The original owner simply downloaded a P2P which just so happens to be preset to share his music folder - How would he have known that people would download from his and others music folder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ubernewhacks View Post
You know what he means lol.
Yes but I was being serious
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