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[vr-z] GeForce GTX 285 performance compared to GTX 280 - Page 4

post #31 of 60
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post
who said they were fooling me? It is the fact that they're attempting to fool people that is wrong. As you said, it is statistical manipulation, and that is why i said they're treating people like idiots.
every company does it



Just like advertisements/commercials make a product seem like the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Again, marketing tool. Get used to it.
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post #32 of 60
Well, depends how this card turns out... I can always step-up to it since I just got (haven't even received yet) my GTX280 on a boxing day sale.

I hope for the best - a nearly free step-up for 10% more performance would be awesome.
    
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post #33 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaivorth View Post
They only look misleading because I bet 30% of us just glance at the graph, and just watch how big those bars are. The other 79% read the axis', and can tell that the performance is only 10%. That other 1% will just call bs no matter what the graph says
The performance isn't the only thing around here with 110%.

Haha. Sorry, couldn't resist

But yeah, that graph is simple enough to me. Doesn't have to start at 0. If the axis was given in TFlops, would you want it to start at 0 and have tiny increments to make the graphs look bigger? No, the people interested in GTX285 will want to know how much better it is than whatever they are likely to have at this point in time. As you can see, ~10%.

Ugh. Read axes people.
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post #34 of 60
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by [pi] View Post
Ugh. Read axes people.
Bolded, underlined, italicized and seconded.
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post #35 of 60
I don't understand what is wrong with people. Graphs do not have to start at 0. In fact, the vast majority of graphics should not start at 0.
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post #36 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldovi View Post
I don't understand what is wrong with people. Graphs do not have to start at 0. In fact, the vast majority of graphics should not start at 0.
I'm going to have to ask you guys to go back and take a statistics and analysis class. Making proper graphs isn't rocket science. When comparing full speeds of two objects directly you want to show the full range of each. The ENTIRE reason in making a graph is to make it very easily (visually) to compare statistics. If the comparisons are going to be purposefully misleading then the ONLY reason for using a graph to represent the statistics is going to be to mislead people, and NOT to inform them. If you simply wanted to inform someone without misleading them you could just give them the numbers. What is the point in making a graph if you're going to force the user to look at the axes, and do the math themselves to figure out the actual difference?


Wow, the new card is like....infinitely better! Oh wait, no the graph is just made like crap. This graph is COMPLETELY worthless, all we can see is that the new card is faster, and we have no indication of how much faster.


At first glance the new card looks about 250% better, but the graph is just misleading.


WOW! Look at how much more the new card has over the old one? Wait, it is the same as the last graph? Well why make it look so drastic? Showing a difference in framerate with a graph like this is complete BS. The difference is only about 8%, which isn't really all that much, a graph like this is purposely skewed to fool people.


Now this is representative of actual difference. You could take the left column and lay it on top of the right and see that the difference isn't that much. A graph like this makes things very easy to quantify and understand. When a graph is done properly the person viewing it doesn't have to spend too much time looking at the axes and doing their own math.

I'm glad you guys continue to mention that this is how marketing is done, thanks, I had no idea......

What I'm saying is that I DO NOT CARE that this is how marketing and commercials are done. Commercials and marketing treat people like they are idiots, and that is my point. I'm not saying it will change, and I do know why they do it, my point is just that it is dishonest and misleading, and that I will tend to lean toward any decent company that isn't trying to deceive their customers by showing them misleading statistics or changing the branding/naming of their product multiple times without making any meaningful changes. What surprises me is how you guys just sit here and defend the companies that are trying to mislead you. You guys act like that because most companies do it that it is ok. Very sad.

/rant
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post #37 of 60
I think most of us understand that you are simply stating your distaste for the marketing techniques. They are designed to be misleading at a quick glance, or at a long glance, if you are mentally impaired.

It would be nice and hunky-dory if they used one of the better graphs that you posted, but we all know that isn't going to happen. Intel, AMD, ATI, and NVidia love their sneaky graphs so much.
    
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post #38 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post
I'm going to have to ask you guys to go back and take a statistics and analysis class. Making proper graphs isn't rocket science. When comparing full speeds of two objects directly you want to show the full range of each. The ENTIRE reason in making a graph is to make it very easily (visually) to compare statistics. If the comparisons are going to be purposefully misleading then the ONLY reason for using a graph to represent the statistics is going to be to mislead people, and NOT to inform them. If you simply wanted to inform someone without misleading them you could just give them the numbers. What is the point in making a graph if you're going to force the user to look at the axes, and do the math themselves to figure out the actual difference?


Wow, the new card is like....infinitely better! Oh wait, no the graph is just made like crap. This graph is COMPLETELY worthless, all we can see is that the new card is faster, and we have no indication of how much faster.


At first glance the new card looks about 250% better, but the graph is just misleading.


WOW! Look at how much more the new card has over the old one? Wait, it is the same as the last graph? Well why make it look so drastic? Showing a difference in framerate with a graph like this is complete BS. The difference is only about 8%, which isn't really all that much, a graph like this is purposely skewed to fool people.


Now this is representative of actual difference. You could take the left column and lay it on top of the right and see that the difference isn't that much. A graph like this makes things very easy to quantify and understand. When a graph is done properly the person viewing it doesn't have to spend too much time looking at the axes and doing their own math.

I'm glad you guys continue to mention that this is how marketing is done, thanks, I had no idea......

What I'm saying is that I DO NOT CARE that this is how marketing and commercials are done. Commercials and marketing treat people like they are idiots, and that is my point. I'm not saying it will change, and I do know why they do it, my point is just that it is dishonest and misleading, and that I will tend to lean toward any decent company that isn't trying to deceive their customers by showing them misleading statistics or changing the branding/naming of their product multiple times without making any meaningful changes. What surprises me is how you guys just sit here and defend the companies that are trying to mislead you. You guys act like that because most companies do it that it is ok. Very sad.

/rant
The best graph of the 4 is the 2nd one. There is no point in showing all that excess information from 0-50 because it isn't very meaningful. The smaller range gives more detail. In engineering they scold you for using 0 as an axis, unless it makes sense to do so (the data is very close to 0).
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post #39 of 60
hmmm any news on a GTx265? id like something in the ~$250 range...
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post #40 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldovi View Post
The best graph of the 4 is the 2nd one. There is no point in showing all that excess information from 0-50 because it isn't very meaningful. The smaller range gives more detail. In engineering they scold you for using 0 as an axis, unless it makes sense to do so (the data is very close to 0).
The 4th graph doesn't show much detail, so it can be hard to truly see the difference. And that is because there isn't much of a difference, which is the reason why marketing comes in and makes it look like there is actually a significant difference. Anyway, this argument is getting really old. Yes, advertising and marketing disgusts me. Defending the people that are trying to take your money by marketing a product in a way that makes it seem better than it really is, also disgusts me.
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