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[vr-z] GeForce GTX 285 performance compared to GTX 280 - Page 6

post #51 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrienspawn View Post
That had better be sarcasm

-------------------------

I have absolutely no problem with graphs like these they're more precise than the one that was shown above as a good example. If it starts at 58 and goes to 60, then there's a 2FPS difference. You can make the bars look exactly the same if you make it go from 0 to 1000. Who cares about how big the bar is? It's what you read that matters. 2FPS difference = 2FPS. Bigger/smaller bar means nothing.
By your logic I could make a graph that shows significant difference in something insanely small like 0.01 FPS. Does it warrant a graph?



Yea, 2 FPS matters a little bit, and it is worth noting when comparing two cards that one is slightly faster than the other. However, it is wrong to make a graph to make it look like a substantial gain.

At what point does it become ridiculous to make graphs to make your product look better? I got a better idea, call me crazy........make a product so damn good that the graphs look like a huge increase because there actually IS a huge increase.
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post #52 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post
By your logic I could make a graph that shows significant difference in something insanely small like 0.01 FPS. Does it warrant a graph?



Yea, 2 FPS matters a little bit, and it is worth noting when comparing two cards that one is slightly faster than the other. However, it is wrong to make a graph to make it look like a substantial gain.

At what point does it become ridiculous to make graphs to make your product look better? I got a better idea, call me crazy........make a product so damn good that the graphs look like a huge increase because there actually IS a huge increase.
If the difference was truly 0.01fps, then yes. Thing is, it doesn't, so that graph is wrong.

By the same logic I can make a graph that starts at 0 and ends at 1000 and shows 0 difference. It's just not usable.

And you realize that it costs money to make cards better? If they could make it twice as good and keep it under 600$, they would.
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post #53 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrienspawn View Post
If the difference was truly 0.01fps, then yes. Thing is, it doesn't, so that graph is wrong.
What is wrong now?

Quote:
By the same logic I can make a graph that starts at 0 and ends at 1000 and shows 0 difference. It's just not usable.
If the difference is so small then it is perfectly usable. As it clearly states the difference is unnoticeable.

Quote:
And you realize that it costs money to make cards better? If they could make it twice as good and keep it under 600$, they would.
And? What's the point?
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post #54 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
What is wrong now?
The graph, because it's unrealisticly made simply to prove a point, despite it never being used, ever before, by any company in the history of mankind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
If the difference is so small then it is perfectly usable. As it clearly states the difference is unnoticeable.
If it's small, yes. Small is what he did, 0.01FPS. Glad you agree.

70FPS-75FPS (5FPS difference) on the other hand is very noticeable if you make a proper graph. On a graph from 0 to 200FPS you would not see it so it's not a good graph. On a graph from 50 to 75 you can clearly see the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
And? What's the point?
He said 'why not make better cards'. Did you read what I quoted? I'm thinking you read something wrong...
Edited by Adrienspawn - 12/29/08 at 4:05pm
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post #55 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrienspawn View Post
If the difference was truly 0.01fps, then yes. Thing is, it doesn't, so that graph is wrong.

By the same logic I can make a graph that starts at 0 and ends at 1000 and shows 0 difference. It's just not usable.

And you realize that it costs money to make cards better? If they could make it twice as good and keep it under 600$, they would.
0 - 1000 isn't a reasonable range for a framerate measurement for video games. Nobody will care about anything past 120 or so. And it is also worthless to have graph values much beyond your highest value.

Here is the main point of all of my rants on this thread: If you cannot tell the difference in the bars on a graph starting at zero, then you will not be able to tell the difference when you're actually playing the game.
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post #56 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post
0 - 1000 isn't a reasonable range for a framerate measurement for video games. Nobody will care about anything past 120 or so. And it is also worthless to have graph values much beyond your highest value.

Here is the main point of all of my rants on this thread: If you cannot tell the difference in the bars on a graph starting at zero, then you will not be able to tell the difference when you're actually playing the game.
I agree. And 10% is noticeable. 3% and less you can't see and probably won't notice at all.
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post #57 of 60
I call BS as well....no way the gtx280 got the same score across the board on all those....and then the 285 is different on all...craptacular at best
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post #58 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_bowtie View Post
I call BS as well....no way the gtx280 got the same score across the board on all those....and then the 285 is different on all...craptacular at best
I'm assuming in the original graphs that the vertical axis represents a percentage change. So 1.0 is 100%, and anything above that is an increase, so 1.1 would be a 10% increase over the GTX280.

The problem is that a 10% increase depends on the original framerate. If you're getting 30fps with a GTX280, then 33fps isn't anything to get too excited about.

A 10% increase every few months from each new card adds up though, cards do seem to be making decent progress. The 8800GTS G92 that I have was top-of-the-line a year ago, and a GTX285 will likely blow it out of the water in most games. I think people are looking for the kind of leaps they saw in the 7->8 series.
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post #59 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_bowtie View Post
I call BS as well....no way the gtx280 got the same score across the board on all those....and then the 285 is different on all...craptacular at best
You need to go back to school and learn how to read graphs.
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post #60 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post
The 4th graph doesn't show much detail, so it can be hard to truly see the difference. And that is because there isn't much of a difference, which is the reason why marketing comes in and makes it look like there is actually a significant difference. Anyway, this argument is getting really old. Yes, advertising and marketing disgusts me. Defending the people that are trying to take your money by marketing a product in a way that makes it seem better than it really is, also disgusts me.
I am not defending them. They don't need to be defended. I am simply pointing out that what they have done is in every possible way correct. There is no mathematical, scientific, conventional, logical, ethical, or moral reason to start a graph at 0. In fact, as I have said before, it would be a poor choice to start this graph at 0.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitingnick View Post
Those charts look totally fake. The GTX280 has the same result in each test??
The GTX280 is the "unit". For example, if measure a bunch of boxes, you have a number with a unit attached, probably an inch. In this case the unit is the performance of the GTX280. So you take your result and divide by the value of the GTX280 to get a unitless number in which the GTX280 will always score a 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post
0 - 1000 isn't a reasonable range for a framerate measurement for video games. Nobody will care about anything past 120 or so. And it is also worthless to have graph values much beyond your highest value.

Here is the main point of all of my rants on this thread: If you cannot tell the difference in the bars on a graph starting at zero, then you will not be able to tell the difference when you're actually playing the game.
Just as 0-70 isn't a reasonable range. Nobody cares about anything under 30 FPS because it isn't playable. It is worthless to have graph values much below your average FPS.

Here is the main point of all of my posts on this thread: What they have done is perfectly acceptable.
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