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post #1571 of 3865








and say hi to my puppy:



i always take a picture of her when im logging my work lol.

so basically these started off as:



i got these garbage bookshelves for free and decided to do this with them, the MDF in the bookshelves is fine for my needs so it all works out and it saved me some time gluing mdf together. so uhh, yeah. i need to peel off the contact papper from me left speaker, polyfill them, cross them over, seal them properly, get good plywood and stain and poly the plywood and i should be golden. this is my first DiY bookshelf build and i am completely whinging it so dont make too much fun of me lol.

some things i learned: take my time and dont use crap dull jigsaw blades, the 45 degree bevel for the plywood is going to SUCK. use holesaws next time because it would have saved me hours of filing and alot of grief messing up my circles with the jigsaw lol.
Edited by coreyL - 10/23/10 at 8:04pm
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post #1572 of 3865
Logitech X-540
     
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post #1573 of 3865
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxicrimsonixx View Post
Logitech X-540

aparently logitech and pc speakers dont count lol,


wanna say hi to my logitech x540? im working on turning it into the worlds first portable surround sound ipod dock



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post #1574 of 3865
Corey, your speaker enclosures does not have a single bracing, which explains the resonance/vibration. Add some bracing inside to decrease vibration.
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post #1575 of 3865
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyL View Post
hmm i think its the combination of having no crossover and needing to be polyfilled in that case. the tweeters are much more effecient than the woofer and make it almost ear piercing when turned up high, the bass isnt as much as i would like. to solve this: i'm thinking i should polyfill it, make a crossover and make a porthole, yourthoughts?
Polyfil is cheap and can't hurt. Just buy some and stick it in there, I'd never build a speaker without at least polyfil inside. PE also has more expensive stuff that's meant for the inside of speakers, but I'd say it's not worth it for your experiment (unless the drivers are really good).

Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneerisloud View Post
1) A crossover is only going to cure at the crossover point. You'll need 2 crossovers, a high pass for the tweeter, and a low pass for the woofer. These can be bought at partsexpress.com in the "speaker building" section. Or you can look up the values and build one yourself from the12volt.com. High pass is easy, as its just a capacitor inline with the positive. A low pass is considerably more difficult, I'd suggest you buy those for your first build.

2) Polyfill only makes the speakers think the enclosure is bigger, and prevents vibrations of the box. With small drivers, that's not an issue. Until you get a 12" subwoofer running 1000w RMS to it, you won't need to worry with 3/4" MDF. Again, the crossovers will help, but they won't help your bass response any. You either have the box built wrong, or your drivers just suck at bass.

3) Portholes? You're essentially going to just cut holes in your enclosure? That's not a port. You would essentially be turning the speakers into free air. This is probably part of the reason already why you have such lacking bass response (you said you have holes in the back). If you're going to go ported, you need to do it CORRECTLY by using software to determine the proper lengths and widths of the ports, or you should go sealed.
I'd agree sealed is safer. Stick to that if you don't know the specs of the woofer.

A crossover is more than just a single capacitor...that's the bare minimum since it's a pretty shallow slope (6dB per octave). Second order is a coil in parallel and a cap in series IIRC, and you keep adding components from there (in a certain configuration obviously).

I don't see how a low pass filter is any more complicated, first order is just a single inductor (coil) in series with the woofer . Coils can be expensive though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyL View Post
heh, it would be nice if i rally knew for sure what model of speakers these are. looks like im going sealed for the time being. i need to get some furniture grade plywood. are you sure partsexpress has quality pre built crossovers?
Yes, just keep them sealed for now. You could just get those, or spend a little while with a xover calculator and buy the components yourself. Don't bother with expensive caps or massive coils right now, it's kind of a stab in the dark anyway, so there's no point in wasting money on an overkill crossover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneerisloud View Post
So measure them with your multimeter. I assume you have a multimeter if you're building speakers and crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyL View Post
i didnt even know my multimeter could measure ohms. should i measure it while playing music is will it measure fine with nothing playing?

ive been whinging it pretty much the entire time lol. ill upload some pics of what ive got so far in a bit.
Unplug the speaker completely. Then use the multimeter to measure across the two connections on the speaker. Switch it to one of the lower settings. The multimeter only measures DC resistance (Re). That will give you an idea of the impedance, but most likely it will be below it. For example if it measures 7.32ohms it's most likely an 8 ohm driver.

Just a side note, when you set the multimeter to the ohmmeter section, it sends out a small current through the lead and then measures resistance by how much current/voltage is actually received at the other lead. So if you touch it to a live wire or speaker when using the ohmmeter you could damage it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FearSC549 View Post
Corey, your speaker enclosures does not have a single bracing, which explains the resonance/vibration. Add some bracing inside to decrease vibration.
Honestly, you don't need that unless the enclosures are extremely poorly built. In that case I'd tell you to take them apart and cut the pieces over again anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyL View Post
couple questions. im in the process of my first bookshelf build. they sound like they are resonating but they are made completely of MDF. is this because it isnt completely finished and i have 2 small holes in the back of the bookshelves in which i will fix soon, or because i havent polyfilled them yet?

also whats the best way to go about making a simple crossover? i plan to make the 6.5 inch polk drivers cross over at 3000 htz to the tweeters somehow.

one more thing is, i know veneering this will be extremely hard, so im thinking ill get 1/4 inch cherry furniture grade plywood and stain/poly it. cutting the 45 degree angles will suck. i dont even know if the tablesaw at my house can do that. i might have to use a router.
'resonating' is extremely vague. What are you hearing? Really loud midrange peak, bloated bass peak...

TBH you need some damping material inside. I also highly recommend the foam gasket tape on partsexpress for sealing the gap between the driver and enclosure (baffle). Are the enclosures sealed up fairly well?

If you're still lacking bass the drivers may need a ported enclosure, but like many of us have said is pretty hard to get right without knowing the thiele/small parameters. If you go too high you'll get one note of bass, if you go too low it might not do much of anything.

Last thing, you NEED a crossover on the tweeter. Any significant amount of bass getting to the tweeter could fry the voice coil. Even if it's only a single capacitor at first. You shouldn't be using a tweeter without a cap on it (use a crossover calculator to find a rough value, usually 2+ kHz). For permanent use, consider a second order (-12dB per octave) where you intend on crossing it over (read around on the12volt like pioneerisloud suggested).

Honestly, there is a ton of information you need to know about speaker building at first and it can be kind of overwhelming, but don't let that discourage you. Just be a nerd like me and spend hours reading about it .
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post #1576 of 3865
Quote:
Originally Posted by drjoey1500 View Post
Polyfil is cheap and can't hurt. Just buy some and stick it in there, I'd never build a speaker without at least polyfil inside. PE also has more expensive stuff that's meant for the inside of speakers, but I'd say it's not worth it for your experiment (unless the drivers are really good).



I'd agree sealed is safer. Stick to that if you don't know the specs of the woofer.

A crossover is more than just a single capacitor...that's the bare minimum since it's a pretty shallow slope (6dB per octave). Second order is a coil in parallel and a cap in series IIRC, and you keep adding components from there (in a certain configuration obviously).

I don't see how a low pass filter is any more complicated, first order is just a single inductor (coil) in series with the woofer . Coils can be expensive though.



Yes, just keep them sealed for now. You could just get those, or spend a little while with a xover calculator and buy the components yourself. Don't bother with expensive caps or massive coils right now, it's kind of a stab in the dark anyway, so there's no point in wasting money on an overkill crossover.





Unplug the speaker completely. Then use the multimeter to measure across the two connections on the speaker. Switch it to one of the lower settings. The multimeter only measures DC resistance (Re). That will give you an idea of the impedance, but most likely it will be below it. For example if it measures 7.32ohms it's most likely an 8 ohm driver.

Just a side note, when you set the multimeter to the ohmmeter section, it sends out a small current through the lead and then measures resistance by how much current/voltage is actually received at the other lead. So if you touch it to a live wire or speaker when using the ohmmeter you could damage it.



Honestly, you don't need that unless the enclosures are extremely poorly built. In that case I'd tell you to take them apart and cut the pieces over again anyway.



'resonating' is extremely vague. What are you hearing? Really loud midrange peak, bloated bass peak...

TBH you need some damping material inside. I also highly recommend the foam gasket tape on partsexpress for sealing the gap between the driver and enclosure (baffle). Are the enclosures sealed up fairly well?

If you're still lacking bass the drivers may need a ported enclosure, but like many of us have said is pretty hard to get right without knowing the thiele/small parameters. If you go too high you'll get one note of bass, if you go too low it might not do much of anything.

Last thing, you NEED a crossover on the tweeter. Any significant amount of bass getting to the tweeter could fry the voice coil. Even if it's only a single capacitor at first. You shouldn't be using a tweeter without a cap on it (use a crossover calculator to find a rough value, usually 2+ kHz). For permanent use, consider a second order (-12dB per octave) where you intend on crossing it over (read around on the12volt like pioneerisloud suggested).

Honestly, there is a ton of information you need to know about speaker building at first and it can be kind of overwhelming, but don't let that discourage you. Just be a nerd like me and spend hours reading about it .
any suggestions for crossing over the woofers to the tweeters at 3,000 htz?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=260-317

i plan on getting that. there are actually braces in these cabnets, but they are small. i plan to also put furniture gradeplywood on the outside as well as completely seal them up. i'm thinking about getting a driver with no voice coil on the side of the cabnets to improve bass response since they will be completely sealed. ive seen this on some old looking b&w speakers and its awesome. any sugguestions on how to do this and where to get the stuff to make it air tight? the thing im looking for is like a woofer surround with strong foam in the middle so when the woofer moves, it moves too from air pressure. it really does help with bass response. im thinking about putting that on the side of each cabnet but i will use a hole saw if i can, i dont like the jigsaw for circles lol.

thanks for tips btw.
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post #1577 of 3865
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyL View Post
any suggestions for crossing over the woofers to the tweeters at 3,000 htz?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=260-317

i plan on getting that. there are actually braces in these cabnets, but they are small. i plan to also put furniture gradeplywood on the outside as well as completely seal them up. i'm thinking about getting a driver with no voice coil on the side of the cabnets to improve bass response since they will be completely sealed. ive seen this on some old looking b&w speakers and its awesome. any sugguestions on how to do this and where to get the stuff to make it air tight? the thing im looking for is like a woofer surround with strong foam in the middle so when the woofer moves, it moves too from air pressure. it really does help with bass response. im thinking about putting that on the side of each cabnet but i will use a hole saw if i can, i dont like the jigsaw for circles lol.

thanks for tips btw.
Polyfil is much cheaper. It's the stuff used for pillows and stuffed animals and stuff. You can get it at joanns or some place like that for like $3-4 per 3/4lb bag.

The driver you were talking about is called a passive radiator. It uses the same principle as a port, only there is a cone moving instead of the column of air in the port. Just like ports they have a resonant frequency that can be tuned by adding mass to them. http://www.parts-express.com/resourc...ide/choose.cfm

You might want to see how they act in a ported box before you cut more holes in your enclosures. Use some pvc pipe if you have any. You could try taking out the tweeter and temporarily putting a port tube in that hole. You'd pretty much have to tune it by ear.
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post #1578 of 3865
I'd like to join the club, if possible. My dad gave me his old Fisher speakers. All of the dust caps are indented, and the left speaker is missing it's midrange, but after small amounts of research, I have yet to come up with a way to fix that. They still sound very nice, and luckily, the missing midrange has yet to kill me.

If anyone here has any suggestions as to replacing any/all of the drivers, I'd be interested in hearing them. Ever since I was very young, I've enjoyed listening to music through these speakers, and I'd really like to restore them to the way they were in their heyday.

PS. Sorry for the terrible picture quality.




    
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post #1579 of 3865
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyL View Post
any suggestions for crossing over the woofers to the tweeters at 3,000 htz?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=260-317

i plan on getting that. there are actually braces in these cabnets, but they are small. i plan to also put furniture gradeplywood on the outside as well as completely seal them up. i'm thinking about getting a driver with no voice coil on the side of the cabnets to improve bass response since they will be completely sealed. ive seen this on some old looking b&w speakers and its awesome. any sugguestions on how to do this and where to get the stuff to make it air tight? the thing im looking for is like a woofer surround with strong foam in the middle so when the woofer moves, it moves too from air pressure. it really does help with bass response. im thinking about putting that on the side of each cabnet but i will use a hole saw if i can, i dont like the jigsaw for circles lol.

thanks for tips btw.
Passive radiator are not for every driver or speaker design, and they tend to cost a lot IMO. Acousta-Stuf costs a lot, I do not know why are you going to get that for such a cheap enclosure with cheap drivers. Get polyfill or fiberglass instead.

If speaker moves from air pressure, that equal distortion. Hence, a strong spider to prevent excursion caused by air pressure. Some drivers are intended for sealed design or with a bass reflex. The main difference between passive radiator and a port is only the size of the enclosure. There's really no benefits of using a passive radiator than a port.


I'd really really really suggest you to research about speakers and speaker building before you try DIY audio. I'm am not sure if you're even serious about making a good-sound speaker. I can not take you seriously if you're just going to throw a bunch of junk together without any thought-processing and expect them to sound like Polk bookshelves. Lurk more on DIY audio forums, read more books, and go audition some good speakers.
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Intel Junk
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post #1580 of 3865
Quote:
Originally Posted by FearSC549 View Post
Passive radiator are not for every driver or speaker design, and they tend to cost a lot IMO. Acousta-Stuf costs a lot, I do not know why are you going to get that for such a cheap enclosure with cheap drivers. Get polyfill or fiberglass instead.

If speaker moves from air pressure, that equal distortion. Hence, a strong spider to prevent excursion caused by air pressure. Some drivers are intended for sealed design or with a bass reflex. The main difference between passive radiator and a port is only the size of the enclosure. There's really no benefits of using a passive radiator than a port.


I'd really really really suggest you to research about speakers and speaker building before you try DIY audio. I'm am not sure if you're even serious about making a good-sound speaker. I can not take you seriously if you're just going to throw a bunch of junk together without any thought-processing and expect them to sound like Polk bookshelves. Lurk more on DIY audio forums, read more books, and go audition some good speakers.

you are kinda right. theres no way in hell of telling for real what exact driver models these things are, i got all this crap for free, so i cant complain. messing with free crap and making speakers out of that is better than spending alot of money imo. learn by tearing crap apart, rebuilding it myself, making new ones seemed like a good idea. i guess ill google around til i find awesome info for my own needs. too bad google wont help me find out what the exact driver models these are.

i cant audition ANY decent speakers aside from studio monitors at guitar center. there are NO stores with damn good speakers around here. theres a bose store, bang and olufson went out of business, best buy is garbage, any other thoughts for the washington DC area to audition speakers that can sound as good as some $10,000 jmlab speakers?

so one question i have is: i know studio monitors are designed for pure flat response, so is that bad for home theater? im not sure on that. i was impressed when i noticed a lot of 105+ db from some studio monitors, meaning they are extremely efficient meaning they dont need as much power to sound as loud which has nothing to do with the actual sound quality. i have the problem that the only speakers ive ever heard that are considered high end would be: my friends gallo 3.0 system thing, some $6,000 pair of bookhelves he has which sound amazing, i dont even count bose at all. they suck imo. ive never heard a klipsch speaker. ive heard a psb image t4 and the bookshelf that goes with it and center with same driver size which sounded awesome.

so basically my problem is i have nothing to compare with in testing hifi audio. im not even sure if my NAD T751 receiver is even a hifi receiver. people on this site told me its garbage so i guess it is.
Pimprig
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Pimprig
(13 items)
 
  
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Core i7 860 @ 3.8ghz EVGA P55 LE Diamond Radeon 4890 955mhz core, 1050mhz mem Corsair xms 3 4GB, ocz reaperx 4gb (8gb total) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD caviar black 2tb (2x1TB) RAID-0 LG SATA super multi win7 ultimate on desktop and laptop. Gateway FPD2485 24" 1920x1200, samsung19"1440x900 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 v2, logitech G13 BFG GS series 550 watt, HX1000 getting RMAd Antec 300 alienware tactx, mx revolution, g9, razer lachesis 
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adesso cybertablet m14 
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