Overclock.net › Forums › Graphics Cards › Graphics Cards - General › Have we reached the PCIe 1.0 limit yet?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Have we reached the PCIe 1.0 limit yet? - Page 2

post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson2011 View Post
Nah only a gtx295 will get bottlenecked by 1.0
+ a 5970 lol.
post #12 of 18
Is PCIe 1.0 vs PCIe 2.0 kind of the same as 16x/16x vs 8x/8x?
Intel Build
(13 items)
 
AMD Build
(13 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q9450 at 3.55Ghz Gigabyte GA-X48-DQ6 Sapphire HD 5770 Vapor-X G.SKILL 8GB 1066 DDR2 
Hard DriveOSPowerCase
WD 640GBs 2-Blue 6-Black Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit ABS Tagan BZ800 Antec 900 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD PII X4 720 BE 3.0Ghz BioStar TA790GX 128M Sapphire HD 5770 Crossfire G.SKILL 8GB 1066 DDR2 
Hard DriveOSPowerCase
Twin WD Caviar Blue 640GB Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit Antec EA650 650W Antec 300 
  hide details  
Reply
Intel Build
(13 items)
 
AMD Build
(13 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q9450 at 3.55Ghz Gigabyte GA-X48-DQ6 Sapphire HD 5770 Vapor-X G.SKILL 8GB 1066 DDR2 
Hard DriveOSPowerCase
WD 640GBs 2-Blue 6-Black Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit ABS Tagan BZ800 Antec 900 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD PII X4 720 BE 3.0Ghz BioStar TA790GX 128M Sapphire HD 5770 Crossfire G.SKILL 8GB 1066 DDR2 
Hard DriveOSPowerCase
Twin WD Caviar Blue 640GB Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit Antec EA650 650W Antec 300 
  hide details  
Reply
post #13 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post
+ a 5970 lol.
lol no. I refuse to spend that kind of money. I'm waiting until nvidia releases their next gen cards (however long it takes) before I purchase a GTX 200 series. Heck, I might even get an upper middle-end next gen, but I'm all about power + efficiency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphic View Post
Is PCIe 1.0 vs PCIe 2.0 kind of the same as 16x/16x vs 8x/8x?
No, and I mean no offense when I say that I'm surprised people still don't know the difference. Check out the Wikipedia article. 8x would definitely bottleneck nowadays, but the full 16-lane-per card is like a wider information highway that supports twice as much throughput. PCI-E v1.x is the old standard, and is just slower than PCI-E 2.x
Cheers
Sentry
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
C3 955BE Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe WiFi XFX GeForce 9800 GTX+ 2x2GB OCZ "Reaper 2" DDR2-1150 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
250G B'cuda, 1T Samsung Sony Optiarc DVD-RW AD-7170S black Coolermaster Hyper 212 plus Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus LCD 1680*1050 Microsoft Natural 4000 Antec Truepower 2.0 480w blue Coolermaster Centurion 5 (blk/slvr+windw) 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Coolermaster CM Storm Xornet Rich Mahogany Bookshelf speakers Standalone speaker amplifier 
  hide details  
Reply
Sentry
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
C3 955BE Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe WiFi XFX GeForce 9800 GTX+ 2x2GB OCZ "Reaper 2" DDR2-1150 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
250G B'cuda, 1T Samsung Sony Optiarc DVD-RW AD-7170S black Coolermaster Hyper 212 plus Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus LCD 1680*1050 Microsoft Natural 4000 Antec Truepower 2.0 480w blue Coolermaster Centurion 5 (blk/slvr+windw) 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Coolermaster CM Storm Xornet Rich Mahogany Bookshelf speakers Standalone speaker amplifier 
  hide details  
Reply
post #14 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphic View Post
Is PCIe 1.0 vs PCIe 2.0 kind of the same as 16x/16x vs 8x/8x?
I think it compares like this, pcie 2.0 @ 8x bandwidth = pcie 1.0 @ 16x bandwidth
Rear Admiral
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 860 @ 4GHZ Tpower I55 Galaxy GTX 670 GC 8GB Samsung 30nm 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
2x Caviar Blue 640gb Mushkin Chronos 120gb SSD Win 7 Pro LG Flatron E2350 
PowerCaseAudio
OCZ 800w HAF922 X-fi Titanium HD 
  hide details  
Reply
Rear Admiral
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 860 @ 4GHZ Tpower I55 Galaxy GTX 670 GC 8GB Samsung 30nm 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
2x Caviar Blue 640gb Mushkin Chronos 120gb SSD Win 7 Pro LG Flatron E2350 
PowerCaseAudio
OCZ 800w HAF922 X-fi Titanium HD 
  hide details  
Reply
post #15 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRHANDS View Post
I think it compares like this, pcie 2.0 @ 8x bandwidth = pcie 1.0 @ 16x bandwidth
Actually, that's correct, if you approach it mathematically, but IDK if it's spot on.

16x = 2*8x (twice the potential throughput at any given speed)
500 MB/s (2.0 speed) = 2*250 MB/s (2 * 1.0 speed)

Therefore, 8 * 500 MB/s = 4000 n, and 16 * 250 MB/s = 4000 n
(where "n" is a unit of throughput, should just be MB/s if the speeds are meant as "per lane")
Edited by Slink - 2/15/10 at 10:04am
Sentry
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
C3 955BE Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe WiFi XFX GeForce 9800 GTX+ 2x2GB OCZ "Reaper 2" DDR2-1150 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
250G B'cuda, 1T Samsung Sony Optiarc DVD-RW AD-7170S black Coolermaster Hyper 212 plus Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus LCD 1680*1050 Microsoft Natural 4000 Antec Truepower 2.0 480w blue Coolermaster Centurion 5 (blk/slvr+windw) 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Coolermaster CM Storm Xornet Rich Mahogany Bookshelf speakers Standalone speaker amplifier 
  hide details  
Reply
Sentry
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
C3 955BE Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe WiFi XFX GeForce 9800 GTX+ 2x2GB OCZ "Reaper 2" DDR2-1150 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
250G B'cuda, 1T Samsung Sony Optiarc DVD-RW AD-7170S black Coolermaster Hyper 212 plus Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus LCD 1680*1050 Microsoft Natural 4000 Antec Truepower 2.0 480w blue Coolermaster Centurion 5 (blk/slvr+windw) 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Coolermaster CM Storm Xornet Rich Mahogany Bookshelf speakers Standalone speaker amplifier 
  hide details  
Reply
post #16 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRHANDS View Post
I think it compares like this, pcie 2.0 @ 8x bandwidth = pcie 1.0 @ 16x bandwidth
Yeah I' think that's right.

Anyways I've learned through researching and through the experience of others that relating "better" card to higher PCI bandwidth is often times a misconception and is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
Here are the things you need to know:

1) PCI-Ex 1.0, 1.1, and 2.0 are all completely compatible in terms of the parts you can use with each other.

2) PCI-Ex 1.0 (or 1.1, same thing) is half as much bandwidth as PCI Ex 2.0. Thus, 2.0@8x = 1.0@16x in terms of bandwidth. However, the bandwidth is NOTHING like the performance difference, which is WAY smaller.

3) Now, this is something that many people around here are not aware of, but PCI-Ex bandwidth is primarily important when your graphics card(s) do not have enough onboard memory as is required for the particular test at hand. If you run a test (say you run Crysis @1920x1200, 2xAA, with Very High texture quality) that uses 750MB of vram, and your cards have only 512MB of vram, this will cause your cards to 'farm out' the difference in memory usage to the system memory. To do this, large amounts of data must pass very quickly over the PCI-Ex bus. This is the scenario where the PCI-Ex bandwidth comes into play heavily. Otherwise, it really isn't terribly important.

Many people think this question come down entirely to 'better card' = 'higher bandwidth requirement', but it's actually not that simple. In fact, it's actually kinda 'wrong', some of the time.
What I got out of that spiel after woefully proven wrong lol in that post by Brettjv, is that slower cards make the PCIe bus interact with the system RAM, which means more bandwidth going across the bus. a PCIe x16 bus can transfer 8GB/s. most DDR2-DDR3 RAM transfer around that or more, up to 12GB/s and beyond. So it's safe to say that RAM can fully saturate the PCIe bus. Although, with management protocols you could have the card use it's full bandwidth and leave the left over to the RAM transfers, effectively limiting the bandwidth that system RAM is allowed to use.

But then you have another problem, if the RAM isn't transferring data fast enough, you'll still see horrible performance. It's a lose lose scenario either way. It's like trying to fit a gallon of water into 1 cup slowly by waiting for it to evaporate before pouring more in.

Vram is very fast, transferring at 50-100's of GB/s give or take, so it's MUCH faster than even the fastest system RAM, which means even if the PCIe bus had loads more bandwidth the system RAM would still be a bottleneck compared to the Vram.
Edited by youra6 - 2/15/10 at 10:15am
Mugendramon
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4670k ASrock Z87 Extreme6 R9 290 Crossfire Samsung 8GB DDR3 2133mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
WD Black 1T Samsung Spinpoint F3 1 TB EK Supreme HF Rev 2.0  HW GTX 360 Rad 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
EK Acetal waterblock W7 64 bit Yamakasi Catleap Q270 2560x1440p Corsair AX850 
CaseAudio
Corsair 800D Creative Titanium HD  
  hide details  
Reply
Mugendramon
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4670k ASrock Z87 Extreme6 R9 290 Crossfire Samsung 8GB DDR3 2133mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
WD Black 1T Samsung Spinpoint F3 1 TB EK Supreme HF Rev 2.0  HW GTX 360 Rad 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
EK Acetal waterblock W7 64 bit Yamakasi Catleap Q270 2560x1440p Corsair AX850 
CaseAudio
Corsair 800D Creative Titanium HD  
  hide details  
Reply
post #17 of 18
Pretty sure the 5970 loses like 30% FPS on PCIe 1.0. Considering it's 2x faster than a 4870X2 (which came very close to bottlenecking), I'd believe it.

Could of swore I saw a benchmark for it.
The Leviathan
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 6700k @ 4.7GHz MSI Z170A Gaming M7 12GB NVIDIA Titan X (Pascal) 32GB G.Skill Ripjaws V (DDR4 3200) 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
2x 1TB Samsung 960 PRO 193TB unRAID Server 3x 140mm Noctua NF-A14 Noctua NH-D15 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro x64 65" LG 65E6P (4K OLED) Ducky DK9008 Shine 3  Corsair AX860 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Corsair Obsidian 750D Logitech G502 Proteus Sprectrum Denon X7200WA (Receiver) 2x Klipsch RF-7 (Front Speakers) 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
4x Klipsch RS-62 (Surround Speakers) Klipsch RC-64 (Center Speaker) 4x Klipsch CDT-5800-C II (Atmos Speakers) 2x SVS PB16-Ultra (Subwoofers) 
  hide details  
Reply
The Leviathan
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 6700k @ 4.7GHz MSI Z170A Gaming M7 12GB NVIDIA Titan X (Pascal) 32GB G.Skill Ripjaws V (DDR4 3200) 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
2x 1TB Samsung 960 PRO 193TB unRAID Server 3x 140mm Noctua NF-A14 Noctua NH-D15 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro x64 65" LG 65E6P (4K OLED) Ducky DK9008 Shine 3  Corsair AX860 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Corsair Obsidian 750D Logitech G502 Proteus Sprectrum Denon X7200WA (Receiver) 2x Klipsch RF-7 (Front Speakers) 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
4x Klipsch RS-62 (Surround Speakers) Klipsch RC-64 (Center Speaker) 4x Klipsch CDT-5800-C II (Atmos Speakers) 2x SVS PB16-Ultra (Subwoofers) 
  hide details  
Reply
post #18 of 18
Thread Starter 
Excellent to hear some more indication. All signs point to "go" for some card in the GTX 200 series reaching the limit of PCI-E v1.0 without limiting the card much, if at all.
Sentry
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
C3 955BE Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe WiFi XFX GeForce 9800 GTX+ 2x2GB OCZ "Reaper 2" DDR2-1150 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
250G B'cuda, 1T Samsung Sony Optiarc DVD-RW AD-7170S black Coolermaster Hyper 212 plus Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus LCD 1680*1050 Microsoft Natural 4000 Antec Truepower 2.0 480w blue Coolermaster Centurion 5 (blk/slvr+windw) 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Coolermaster CM Storm Xornet Rich Mahogany Bookshelf speakers Standalone speaker amplifier 
  hide details  
Reply
Sentry
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
C3 955BE Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe WiFi XFX GeForce 9800 GTX+ 2x2GB OCZ "Reaper 2" DDR2-1150 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
250G B'cuda, 1T Samsung Sony Optiarc DVD-RW AD-7170S black Coolermaster Hyper 212 plus Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus LCD 1680*1050 Microsoft Natural 4000 Antec Truepower 2.0 480w blue Coolermaster Centurion 5 (blk/slvr+windw) 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Coolermaster CM Storm Xornet Rich Mahogany Bookshelf speakers Standalone speaker amplifier 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Graphics Cards - General
Overclock.net › Forums › Graphics Cards › Graphics Cards - General › Have we reached the PCIe 1.0 limit yet?