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[Shack] Gabe Newell: Left 4 Dead Half-price Sale Saw 3000% Increase, Beat Launch #'s - Page 7

post #61 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
And that just proves you didn't read everything. My point all along has only been that Valve is not perfect and is capable of making non-minor mistakes in their games. I didn't turn this into a point-out-the-flaws-of-Steam contest - he did - so to suggest that I'm "blindly hating," especially when I have coherent reasons, is ridiculous.

I am not making it more simple than it sounds. Valve has reduced the price fairly often - and not just on their games. If they really cared what the retail stores thought then they wouldn't do that. Would it put the stores out of business for video games? Perhaps, but such is business. We won't have to worry about this happening until Vavle decides to lower their pricing. I'm willing to bet Valve is charging what they are for their games on Steam because they can, not because they have to - especially with their own products. They make Left 4 Dead and Half-Life, so retail stores have absolutely no say in what Valve does with them. There is nothing complicated here.
Well i guess your post would then be a prime example of how your hate is clouding your logic, because neither I, nor the original person you were arguing with have stated ANYTHING ANYWHERE REMOTELY CLOSE to saying VALVe was pefect.
    
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post #62 of 79
Good work Valve. Looks like the discount weekends are really paying off.

Stargate -
Quote:
I am not making it more simple than it sounds. Valve has reduced the price fairly often - and not just on their games. If they really cared what the retail stores thought then they wouldn't do that. Would it put the stores out of business for video games? Perhaps, but such is business. We won't have to worry about this happening until Vavle decides to lower their pricing. I'm willing to bet Valve is charging what they are for their games on Steam because they can, not because they have to - especially with their own products. They make Left 4 Dead and Half-Life, so retail stores have absolutely no say in what Valve does with them. There is nothing complicated here.
You just defeated your own argument. They lower the costs on certain games on weekends, true, but if they cared for retail (which they don't need to imo) they wouldn't do that. Ok, fair enough. "They charge what they charge because they can, not because they have to..." HUH? So your saying they should be charging less, say 40 bucks for a game, which is contradictory to your first remark.

I for one thing Steam is even better than having the hard copy. House burns down? I still got my games. Reformat? Well with a disk you have to sit there for HOURS installing all of your favorite games back on your hard drive. I don't know about the rest of you, but when you reformat 3-4 times a year or more, it sure is nice to throw 80Gb worth of files on a backup harddrive, reformat, and simply move them back. Sure they usually have to sync up with Steam, but that is all of seconds.

Blindly hating Valve and Steam because they are the defacto standard of DD for PC gamers at the moment is contradictory to what we as PC gamers need to be doing.
Gamestop and other various outlets do not carry PC games hardly at all, if at all and console gamers pay royalties to the manufacturer bringing their cost to 60 dollars.
I for one say bring it on Steam. You have catered to my needs as a PC gamer for 5 years now, delivering great content(ever growing I may add) at pretty darn good speeds. You listen to the community when it comes to changes. You give us free DLC on all your games unlike the console gamers who have to pay for it. You have made the games very transition able in the fact that you can throw your Steam folder on a HD or Disk and move it to a new computer or a new partition. The list goes on and on. They have done NOTHING so far to make anyone doubt them so why? Sometimes it seems people just have to find a reason to hate something great, even if they aren't even the best justifiable reasons.
    
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post #63 of 79
Oh my god, can we please stop the valve flame war? Get this discussion back on topic and discuss the fact that they've increased their sales by slashing prices.

This is not supposed to be a discussion about how much you like or dislike valve. I understand those comments will make their way into this discussion, but it is not to be the primary topic.

If you want to talk about that, start your own thread about it please and get the "F" out of this one.

That is all.
post #64 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt View Post
Well i guess your post would then be a prime example of how your hate is clouding your logic, because neither I, nor the original person you were arguing with have stated ANYTHING ANYWHERE REMOTELY CLOSE to saying VALVe was pefect.
By suggesting that issues I've pointed out were user error and not Valve is doing exactly that. Refusing to acknowledge even the slightest error is the fault of Valve is in effect arguing that Valve is perfect - or at least better than everyone else. It's not a confusing concept, so clearly I am not the one with the clouded judgement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanrenolds08 View Post
Stargate -

You just defeated your own argument. They lower the costs on certain games on weekends, true, but if they cared for retail (which they don't need to imo) they wouldn't do that. Ok, fair enough. "They charge what they charge because they can, not because they have to..." HUH? So your saying they should be charging less, say 40 bucks for a game, which is contradictory to your first remark.
I fail to see how my statement is contradictory so you'll have to do a better job of explaining. Reducing a price permanently and reducing it occasionally to induce sales are two completely different things - and being able to have a sale so often only indicates that they are making huge profit margins by selling through Steam. It's not contradictory if you understand what was said.

Quote:
I for one thing Steam is even better than having the hard copy. House burns down? I still got my games. Reformat? Well with a disk you have to sit there for HOURS installing all of your favorite games back on your hard drive. I don't know about the rest of you, but when you reformat 3-4 times a year or more, it sure is nice to throw 80Gb worth of files on a backup harddrive, reformat, and simply move them back. Sure they usually have to sync up with Steam, but that is all of seconds.
Horrible examples. You can download the game through Steam even if you purchased a hard copy so basically everything you've said to support having a digital copy over a hard copy is completely invalid.
Edited by stargate125645 - 2/20/09 at 8:29am
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post #65 of 79
Argh i missed it :@
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post #66 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
You are blindly defending Valve and refusing to see any flaw in Valve.
No flaw? What about this? You even quoted it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justarealguy View Post
Personally I absolutely HATE the L4D matchmaking system. I don't like the new server browser in TF2 and L4D and I actually like to have a server browser(in L4D, it's not enabled by default). They are certainly not perfect and imo they need to get out of the console market because it's having a negative impact on their PC games.
How is that not a flaw? Their matchmaking system sucks. I just picked up GOW(a friend lended me his xbox, and I'm enjoying it!) the other day and noticed that it searches for skill (rank) when selecting players. Why the heck hasn't valve got something like this? Where is the karma system to stop the ragequitters? It's very flawed. I like L4D but I do not like the way valve has approached the matchmaking.

------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
I'll give you a hint: coding issues! You don't have to believe it and probably won't because you are living in a fantasy world where logic doesn't dictate truth but what you want to believe does.
I'm not living in that world. There are coding issues with the nvidia drivers. Whether or not they are actually valve's issues - Honestly I havn't read up on them so I can't comment on that. But people make mistakes and I don't know how much history you have with valve but major issues are patched quickly. I see how that could be some blind support, but valve has a history of quick fixes to problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
If a digital version of a game costs the same as a non-digital version, then there is no benefit from getting the digital version other then being able to sit on your rear while buying it. Why? Because for starters, you have a hard copy to install from instead of having to download, but you also have the option of downloading the game through Steam even if you originally bought it through a retail store.
That's a great advantage right there. I don't have to go out to a store and buy it - Gas money. CDs are generally slower for me. CS:S took forever to install over 4 discs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
Secondly, owning the disc(s) for a game proves that you own the game in case someone steals your CD key or other registration items. Thirdly, my dollar goes a lot further when buying a retail copy - not only do I support Valve but I support all of the middle men, and I have the option of supporting the local community as well. If Valve didn't have huge, unnecessary profit margins via Steam then they wouldn't be selling the games at such a discount so often. But I don't expect you to pay attention to these points, either, because that would be out of character.
Supporting your local community? Buying from gamestop doesn't do that. It just hurts everyone really. It's another crap company out to sell used items at a profit.

What's wrong with selling games on a discount? You don't like spending less money for games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
Did I mention anything about Steam going under and me not being able to have access to my games anymore? No. Did I say I hate Steam in this thread? No (but I did make a rant on the topic not too long ago to vent regarding some issues). These are just some of the many things you make up to try to find something you can prop your defense on rather than what was actually said because in order to argue against what I've said you'd have to actually read what I wrote, understand what I wrote, and come up with coherent rebuttals - all of which you are showing me you are incapable of doing. This is why arguing with people who act like fanboys is a fruitless endeavor.
Yeah, because you read my posts (look at the first point in this post I made)
Edited by justarealguy - 2/20/09 at 9:18am
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post #67 of 79
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Originally Posted by ryanrenolds08 View Post
I for one thing Steam is even better than having the hard copy. House burns down? I still got my games. Reformat? Well with a disk you have to sit there for HOURS installing all of your favorite games back on your hard drive. I don't know about the rest of you, but when you reformat 3-4 times a year or more, it sure is nice to throw 80Gb worth of files on a backup harddrive, reformat, and simply move them back. Sure they usually have to sync up with Steam, but that is all of seconds.
Once you buy the hard copy and link it to your account, it's exactly the same as if you bought it via online. Only now you get the case, booklet, hard media. If you want less for more, fine, but it doesn't seem wise to me.

Currently the only game I've bought online through steam is AudioSurf, because it's not available through a retailer. I bought L4D, Orange box, HL1 pack, HL2 pack and EP1 all on retail box.

To be fair I also bought Garry's Mod online, but that and AudioSurf are $10 games.
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post #68 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
By suggesting that issues I've pointed out were user error and not Valve is doing exactly that. Refusing to acknowledge even the slightest error is the fault of Valve is in effect arguing that Valve is perfect - or at least better than everyone else. It's not a confusing concept, so clearly I am not the one with the clouded judgement.
I, For one, never said or read anything about user error, just you going off about an assumption that others' think valve is perfect. If I missed something I appologize, but instead of going on the attack and lumping me in with the other guy, you could have explained your position better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
I fail to see how my statement is contradictory so you'll have to do a better job of explaining. Reducing a price permanently and reducing it occasionally to induce sales are two completely different things - and being able to have a sale so often only indicates that they are making huge profit margins by selling through Steam. It's not contradictory if you understand what was said.
That is why your point is self-defeating. They compete with brick and mortar so they don't care what they think but best believe that if ALL steam games were 25% cheaper ALL the time, then those stores would cease to carry the games... You do know this, right?! Its the same reason why buying products directly from the maker ( example, buying through sony instead of best buy ) usually is MORE expensive at the MRSP. product producers can't afford to piss off people who carry their products
Edited by FuNkDrSpOt - 2/20/09 at 10:16am
    
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post #69 of 79
my testicles are still hurting from the kick they recieved when i read this lol. I bought mine and was playing it @ 12:01 my time of launch and it cost me like 64$ in the end. sad that now i could have gotten it for literally half that cost
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post #70 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by payton12345x2 View Post
How much money could it possibly take to make a game...disk.case.and a bunch of code
Except when you purchase a digital copy, you do not get any case, dvd or printed manual. Yet people are still happy to pay the same price.

Truth is games are too expensive, this is why piracy is so high, and why they saw record sales when they put L4D on offer.

Think about console games for a moment, piracy is hardly an issue so developers can get away with charging extortionate prices - If they can, you can bet they will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
I wonder what percentage of their sales come over Steam versus retail, as that has to give Valve a significantly higher profit if the game is purchased digitally instead. No middle man and they charge the same price! That is part of the reason I prefer hard copies - if I'm paying the same price then I want a hard copy!
I agree completely.

I prefer my hard copies as it's nice to spend a little time and effort to head into a game store to purchase a game i'm eager to play...just like the good old days - I'm nostalgic like that.

Not only do Valve charge the same price for digital copies, but they also surreptitiously remove abilities from us, the consumer. Our voracious appetite for entertainment has made us oblivious to this.

When you buy a digital copy via steam, you pay for a service, not product. They are in control, not you.

Despite what i may sound like, i do like the concept of digital distribution like Steam, but i can see how it can be abused and leave us standing there with nothing but a *virtual* receipt as proof of purchase. Kinda puts our dependency on modern day technology in perspective...but that's heading off topic.
Edited by Thingamajig - 2/20/09 at 10:54am
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