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The Truth about Temperatures and Voltages - Page 11

post #101 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaMan View Post
Well, this makes me want to be able to monitor my chips amps and/or watts even more now.

BTW, please link me if you can.
I'm a bit overwhelmed by the document to find where it is again, but here is the link to that document:

http://download.intel.com/design/pro...hts/318726.pdf

ChickenInferno explains how he got it in Post #61 of this thread.
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post #102 of 599
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaMan View Post
Was reading your thread today and I noticed this^^^ I've personally been pondering a thoery the past week or so.


Theory: It's not particularly temps or voltage that degrade/kill a CPU, but excessive power consumption. It's a proven fact that the hotter a component runs the more watts it uses. Just like the graph on page 79 shows how many watts are being used at a certain temperature. q9000 for example with stock voltage and 71C it uses ~95w. So when you increase the voltage the chip will use more watts at a lower temp. Thus limiting the OC. This is why we have to run our chips cooler in order to OC them further. Cooler temps means lower power comsumption.

The graph on page 79 is not saying that Tcase limitation is increasing, it's saying that power compumtion of 95w will be reached at 71C with VID vcore assuming that Intel used a chip's VID in lab tests.

I can prove or disprove this theory if I can find a way to monitor CPU power comsumption by either amps or watts. If I can find a way I plan to put the stock cooler back on and OC as far as it will go and be stable. If my thoery is right It should use very close to the same amount of watts as it does now with my currant aftermarket cooler OC'd as far it it can go.



Remember, this is just my theory. I welcome input.


EDIT: Oh and I'm not saying that 95w is the maximum power consumptiong for a q9000 proc. It's prbly a very conservative number from Intel. Intel would prbly never tell us a real answer anyways.
I completely understand what you are saying and the idea of a maximum power consumption before hurting the CPU is true, but it's kind of a blanketing statement. At the maximum voltage with a constant current, you will reach a maximum power consumption. However, that equation I listed is refferring to TDP (Thermal Design Power) in Watts. This is where the ambiguity from Intel really comes back hard. To go from Electrical Power to Thermal Power, the equation is usually P(therm)=P(elec)*Inefficency as which point we would need to now the inefficency coefficent for the CPUs. The fact that they give a graph and an equation (at least to me) suggests that it's not just what they listed. If there truly was a maximum power consumption that would happen before hitting the absolute maximum voltages, then there would be no way to safeguard against it before the maximum voltages. I think it's much more likely that the maximum electrical power consumption would occur at 1.55v (for 65nm) * I (Current in amps)= P(elec max). Then also consider that P(elec max)* Inefficency=P(therm max) and without the current (or it could be done with resistance) we can't calculate the maximum electrical power and without the Inefficency coefficent we can't calculate the maximum thermal power. Intel needs to put out these numbers

(I am in no way an engineer so if something is wrong with this please feel free to shine some light on the error. I am a chemist, but this is what made sense to me.)


Page 76
Quote:
Notes
3. Thermal Design Power (TDP) should be used for processor thermal solution design targets.The TDP is not the maximum power that the processor can dissipate.
4. This table shows the maximum TDP for a given frequency range. Individual processors may have a lower TDP. Therefore, the maximum TC will vary depending on the TDP of the individual processor. Refer to thermal profile figure and associated table for the allowed combinations of power and TC.

Edited by ChickenInferno - 8/15/09 at 9:25pm
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post #103 of 599
Thanks guys. I like what happens when we put our heads together.


I'm still going to continue to look for a way to monitor amp or watts. The point I'm getting to is that if we can start to get a basis for how many amp or watts ppl are using in their overclocks we can start to determine the max power consumption for different model chips. Thus, if we had the ability to monitor power consumption we could effectively be able to guesstimate how much OC overhead is left in someone's OC. Instead of saying "oh, your load temps are 60C you have some room left", which may not be true if their vcore is to high that they have already reached the chip watts limitation.



In the graph below, can anyone tell me what X and Y represent?
    
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post #104 of 599
in post #1 where did you get the TJ Max data?

I remember Uncleweb testing Q6600 with the temp gun taking distance to TJ max to 0 and reporting the TJ max is therefore 100*c

Are you sure its ~90*c as stated in your post?

I understand there is variation in all CPU's TJ max but just as principle id like to know.
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post #105 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasjeet View Post
in post #1 where did you get the TJ Max data?

I remember Uncleweb testing Q6600 with the temp gun taking distance to TJ max to 0 and reporting the TJ max is therefore 100*c

Are you sure its ~90*c as stated in your post?

I understand there is variation in all CPU's TJ max but just as principle id like to know.
I asked the same question. So he added this source link.
http://intel.wingateweb.com/taiwan08...2_Nov_1006.pdf
    
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post #106 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaMan View Post
Thanks guys. I like what happens when we put our heads together.


I'm still going to continue to look for a way to monitor amp or watts. The point I'm getting to is that if we can start to get a basis for how many amp or watts ppl are using in their overclocks we can start to determine the max power consumption for different model chips. Thus, if we had the ability to monitor power consumption we could effectively be able to guesstimate how much OC overhead is left in someone's OC. Instead of saying "oh, your load temps are 60C you have some room left", which may not be true if their vcore is to high that they have already reached the chip watts limitation.



In the graph below, can anyone tell me what X and Y represent?
Everest Ultimate will tell you what Amps and Watts your CPU uses

I've had 142w out of mine while running Intel Burn Test
At 71c at the hottest core
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post #107 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACHILEE5 View Post
Everest Ultimate will tell you what Amps and Watts your CPU uses

I've had 142w out of mine while running Intel Burn Test
At 71c at the hottest core

Where? I have Everest Ultimate and I don't see amps or watts anywhere.
    
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post #108 of 599
There ya go

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post #109 of 599
Yea, mine doesn't have amps. Guess it's the mobo that doesn't have a sensor for it. errrr
    
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post #110 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaMan View Post
Yea, mine doesn't have amps. Guess it's the mobo that doesn't have a sensor for it. errrr
I wonder if it's because of your board, or because I'm using newer Everest?
v5.01.1700
This shot is running Prime95

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