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The Truth about Temperatures and Voltages - Page 13

post #121 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaMan View Post
Bump

Anyone know what X and Y represent?

EDIT: fixed pic
X is TDP (Thermal Design Power). The Y is just simply the maximum temperature that the center of the IHS can run (Tcase). I am honestly beginning to this that Intel really doesn't know what these CPUs can withstand or that they will never say because if they released a document saying "It can take this much" and someone proves it can't, then they would be liable.


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post #122 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenInferno View Post

Temperature guns can not possibly take the temperature of the cores. The best that it could do would be to is take the temp of the heatsink or even the IHS. He would have had to have drilled a hole through the IHS (or took off the IHS and ran without a heatsink to do the measurement.

lol, missed this post



Yea, i have that reading, but its not showing currant wattage and I wonder where Everest got the data for max wattage???
    
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post #123 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaMan View Post
lol, missed this post



Yea, i have that reading, but its not showing currant wattage and I wonder where Everest got the data for max wattage???
What the 156W, in my case. Hmm, good question

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post #124 of 599
Thread Starter 
It doesn't seem to be current wattage now that I play around with it. I'm betting everest just did testing running computers and tested their wattage using a Kill-a-Watt. It seems to just be a standard; Achilees even says at 3.00ghz
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post #125 of 599
[QUOTE=jasjeet;6951366]X is TDP (Thermal Design Power). The Y is just simply the maximum temperature that the center of the IHS can run (Tcase). I am honestly beginning to this that Intel really doesn't know what these CPUs can withstand or that they will never say because if they released a document saying "It can take this much" and someone proves it can't, then they would be liable.


Temperatures, for cores at least, do not matter since this is not a true temperature. There is a defined TJmax and it counts down, not in degrees, and although by subtracting one from the other you can get a damn close temp for cores. Where it matters is when Tj hits 0 throttling begins. Again this is not a temperature. The other item that screws up the temp accuracy is each processor is calibrated at the factory individually for Tj. This should not give a huge offset in any case but can come into play OC'ing. Intel also overshoots their calibrations a bit so you typically can go above what they say you can and not be impacted. This also ensures no damage or blame will come about so no one can prove anything. Overshoot the numbers and stay safe.

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post #126 of 599
Thread Starter 
You kind of got most of the right idea, but the throttling part is wrong (See Post 1 and Post 80). Read the OP and pretty much everything you stated is what I've said. Jasjeet was actually quoting me from Post 118 to show PizzaMan.
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post #127 of 599
Everest gets their max wattage from watts law. take high end of the voltage (1.3) and max Amp draw to CPU (regulated by board) 100Amp and multiply them

100Amp X 1.3 = 130watt

This of course is killed when you overclock or go out of that range. Even though we know the processor can take far more they keep their numbers down with Intels volt specs.

Brian

Now that did not make sense, maybe I should have read what everest had before running my mouth. That matches up with typical power. But the max v on 9650 (according to Intel is 1.3625v so it should be 136.25 (keeping within Intel epec). Ok so the max watt is maybe them guessing? Its not what Intel says, and its not what everyone who has ever tried 1.5v and survived says, wild guess maybe?
Edited by blkrnbw - 8/15/09 at 8:59pm
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post #128 of 599
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blkrnbw View Post
Everest gets their max wattage from watts law. take high end of the voltage (1.3) and max Amp draw to CPU (regulated by board) 100Amp and multiply them

100Amp X 1.3 = 130watt

This of course is killed when you overclock or go out of that range. Even though we know the processor can take far more they keep their numbers down with Intels volt specs.

Brian
Nope. Currently according to Everest, my maximum power is 168.8W and I am currently using 1.48v so 100amps *1.48v=148W=/=168.8W. Currently, I should actually be using 114amps.

I actually was playing around with it earlier and at 1.45 it showed me that my maximum power was only 162W. Then, I should have been using 111amps.

I think it's actually the cumulation of multiple voltage sources going into the CPU, there is VTT, Vcore, and I think one more IIRC.

1.45vcore+1.40vtt=2.85v

168.8W/2.85v=59amps, a little more reasonable.
Edited by ChickenInferno - 8/15/09 at 8:57pm
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post #129 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenInferno View Post
I completely understand what you are saying and the idea of a maximum power consumption before hurting the CPU is true, but it's kind of a blanketing statement. At the maximum voltage with a constant current, you will reach a maximum power consumption. However, that equation I listed is refferring to TDP (Thermal Design Power) in Watts. This is where the ambiguity from Intel really comes back hard. To go from Electrical Power to Thermal Power, the equation is usually P(elec)=P(therm)*Inefficency as which point we would need to now the inefficency coefficent for the CPUs. The fact that they give a graph and an equation (at least to me) suggests that it's not just what they listed. If there truly was a maximum power consumption that would happen before hitting the absolute maximum voltages, then there would be no way to safeguard against it before the maximum voltages. I think it's much more likely that the maximum electrical power consumption would occur at 1.55v (for 65nm) * I (Current in amps)= P(elec max). Then also consider that P(elec max)* Inefficency=P(therm max) and without the current (or it could be done with resistance) we can't calculate the maximum electrical power and without the Inefficency coefficent we can't calculate the maximum thermal power. Intel needs to put out these numbers

(I am in no way an engineer so if something is wrong with this please feel free to shine some light on the error. I am a chemist, but this is what made sense to me.)


Page 76

Ok, my brain has been workin on this all night. Which is it: "P(elec)=P(therm)*Inefficency" or "(elec max)* Inefficency=P(therm max)"?
    
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post #130 of 599
Thread Starter 
Haha, I showed two different forms of the equation. One is for creating/capturing thermal power from electrical power P(therm max)=P(elec max) * Inefficency, which is due to the inability to convert all electricity into heat. This is the equation you want.

The other was from capturing electrical power from thermal power. P(elec captured)=P(therm)* Inefficency, which is due to the inability to convert all heat into electricity. This is an equation I use in my lab sometimes and I shouldn't have put that in there. This is also the most common form of the equation, but does not apply in this case.
Edited by ChickenInferno - 8/15/09 at 9:30pm
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