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The Truth about Temperatures and Voltages - Page 35

post #341 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenInferno View Post
Me+Physics= Do not get along

I know it well enough to get through my Calc based physics year, but besides that I am a novice at best. Even the theory of relativity with the twin theory still confuses me.... and then there is dark matter... evil evil evil physics

I'm glad that you at least understand it well enough to figure out a concept that still doesn't make sense to me and 99% of the world.
Actually, I am a 10th grade drop-out / GED guy. I have nothing resembling a classical education in physics. I have never taken a single physics class. However, my father has a doctorate in physics*. I wouldn't have the first clue, as to assembling an equation which would support that theory, but I seem to intuit things rather well.

That is the spark. Going from A to C, with no mention of B.

* This is in fact, purely incidental to my understanding of physics (or lack there of).

On the other hand, I can rap my head around infinity, after thinking about it for long enough. I DO personally hold dear, the belief that there are infinite parallel worlds, separated only by vast space. And infinite universes containing these infinite worlds. It honestly fits like a glove at this point.

However, I would say that becoming too comfortable in the certainty of one's understanding of reality, is one of the worst traps a scientific mind can fall into.
Edited by Clockadile Dundee - 10/31/09 at 6:20pm
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post #342 of 599
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clockadile Dundee View Post
I have never taken a single physics class. However, my father has a doctorate in physics*

* This is in fact, purely incidental to my understanding of physics (or lack there of).


I can think of theory about intermolecular forces and estimate the chances of for example helium with its pure lack of intermolecular forces causing a greater volume than expected of an ideal gas, but I can never ever ever intuitively think of a physics concept (or even know how to spell intuitively).

I wish I could understand or even figure out with any degree of certainty of what Einstein thought of, but I can't so I will be going to you if it comes up in a class like physi-orgo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clockadile Dundee View Post

On the other hand, I can rap my head around infinity, after thinking about it for long enough. I DO personally hold dear, the belief that there are infinite parallel worlds, separated only by vast space. And infinite universes containing these infinite worlds. It honestly fits like a glove at this point.

However, I would say that becoming too comfortable in the certainty of one's understanding of reality, is one of the worst traps a scientific mind can fall into.
My understanding of infinity in the words of Chao Chang Huang my Calc 2 and 3 prof at WSU:

"You no understand; you just memorize. I do this 50 years and I no understand. You take book home and you go under your covers with your flashlight and you read and you memorize. Memorize meorize memorize!!!"

as well as

"see this thing: this thing is so large you no understand. It so big you can't say how big it is. You memorize how big but you no understand!"
Edited by ChickenInferno - 10/31/09 at 6:24pm
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post #343 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenInferno View Post


I can think of theory about intermolecular forces and estimate the chances of for example helium with its pure lack of intermolecular forces causing a greater volume than expected of an ideal gas, but I can never ever ever intuitively think of a physics concept (or even know how to spell intuitively).

I wish I could understand or even figure out with any degree of certainty of what Einstein thought of, but I can't so I will be going to you if it comes up in a class like physi-orgo.



My understanding of infinity in the words of Chao Chang Huang my Calc 2 and 3 prof at WSU:

"You no understand; you just memorize. I do this 50 years and I no understand. You take book home and you go under your covers with your flashlight and you read and you memorize. Memorize meorize memorize!!!"

as well as

"see this thing: this thing is so large you no understand. It so big you can't say how big it is. You memorize how big but you no understand!"
That is just excellent. What I am saying is, I am not sure, but with regards to a couple little tidbits, I think maybe I am past memorization. (I sure hope so, but of course, how are you yourself supposed to verify something like this? Lol That you in fact "understand"?)

You have to let go of your little human constructs. Infinity is not quantifiable, it is not necessarily even useful to think of it it terms of size.

For example, infinity divided by two, is infinity.

Infinity divided by ten...is infinity.

These kind of concepts, trying to become comfortable with them, is more about attitude, then raw mental horsepower; I have a feeling that this is so, anyway.

I have a cd box set of the lectures of Richard Feynman. It is like 99,000 hours long, but they are broken up by subject, and he explains all the fundamentals, in a way that you could understand.
For example, he uses the analogy of ants on a hot plate, to explain curved space, lol.(IIRC. I may be confabulating one analogy with another topic, which just goes to show how firm my grasp on that is.) You could borrow it, and I guarantee you will understand something, better than you did before.

(Or, you will be reasonably convinced that you understand something)

Edited by Clockadile Dundee - 10/31/09 at 7:06pm
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post #344 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenInferno View Post
Nothing can be said about about the accuracy of a temperature measurement once Dist to TJ Max=0
Nor does it really matter. At that point you are losing performance (unless you disabled throttling, in which case you obviously lost brain cells instead ), so even if you are sub-ambient in actual temperatures you still want to go lower. DTS = 0 is the only truly meaningful point, as everything else will have some level of guesswork. Assuming you are not already throttling, you know you will throttle at DTS = 0, you don't know that you will throttle if your temps increase by 1C when at DTS = 1. It would be a fairly safe assumption, but it's still an assumption.

I avoid DTS = 0 unless I'm doing suicide runs on air, and everything else is meaningless to me, but that's just me.
Edited by randomizer - 10/31/09 at 7:33pm
    
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post #345 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomizer View Post
Nor does it really matter. At that point you are losing performance (unless you disabled throttling, in which case you obviously lost brain cells instead ), so even if you are sub-ambient in actual temperatures you still want to go lower. DTS = 0 is the only truly meaningful point, as everything else will have some level of guesswork. Assuming you are not already throttling, you know you will throttle at DTS = 0, you don't know that you will throttle if your temps increase by 1C when at DTS = 1. It would be a fairly safe assumption, but it's still an assumption.

I avoid DTS = 0 unless I'm doing suicide runs on air, and everything else is meaningless to me, but that's just me.
It is not just you. People place way more importance on temps, that are all within a range, that is basically all equivalent.

However, it is always good to have another data point, because while by itself it is meaningless, when considered in the context of other factors, if corroborated, it can be indicative of other things, not concerned with lifespan.
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post #346 of 599
Indicative, yes, but not definitive. The reported temperatures could indicate a poor mounting of the cooler, but beyond that they can't tell you much else. I agree, people put so much importance on core temp readings and thus faith in these sensors when there is no reason to. If the CPU is stable, and the heat sink is mounted correctly, let the chip take care of itself. In some ways I wish it was impossible to access the DTS data
    
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post #347 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomizer View Post
Indicative, yes, but not definitive. The reported temperatures could indicate a poor mounting of the cooler, but beyond that they can't tell you much else. I agree, people put so much importance on core temp readings and thus faith in these sensors when there is no reason to. If the CPU is stable, and the heat sink is mounted correctly, let the chip take care of itself. In some ways I wish it was impossible to access the DTS data
It is not so much the absolute temp values themselves, but their reaction to hardware or configuration changes. The example you gave is probably the big one, and I believe that would fall under the "Mechanical Specification".
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post #348 of 599
Something's been bothering me the past couple days while I've been benchmarking/stress testing nonstop... why did Intel suddenly change their minds and state that the TJMax of the Q6x00 is actually 90C, not 100C. After all, RealTemp and HWMonitor both report 100C for the Q6600. I know this may not change the Distance to TJMax, but it definitely changes how close my reported temps get to TCase.
Edited by aznofazns - 11/1/09 at 12:41am
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post #349 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by aznofazns View Post
Something's been bothering me the past couple days while I've been benchmarking/stress testing nonstop... why did Intel suddenly change their minds and state that the TJMax of the Q6x00 is actually 90C, not 100C. After all, RealTemp and HWMonitor both report 100C for the Q6600. I know this may not change the Distance to TJMax, but it definitely changes how close my reported temps get to TCase.
I have a feeling this, or definitely something like this, has been discussed in this thread, so you may want to do a search on this thread. IIIRC, in a couple cases, it was possibly a typo. (I am trying to set a record for qualifier:word ratio)
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post #350 of 599
I did a quick search and the general gist I got was that Intel originally overestimated TJMax from the actual 90C to 100C so that a few outlying Q6600's with TJMax over 90C wouldn't cause complaints... but honestly, this thread is much too long for me to read every word of... so correct me if I'm wrong
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