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post #491 of 599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSF-Foxhound View Post
I argue that a 920 with a default VID of 0.95, overvolted to 1.375 could have the potential to be damaged (the 'maximum VID').

I believe every chip is different, every limit is different. The spec still remains the same, but the chips limits don't.

*waits to be applauded/corrected by chickeninferno*



32nm chip maximum and minimums..
I agree that every chip is more than likely different and would be able to take different amounts of voltages. If you know about chemical/biological exposure limits, then I would maybe compare the absolute maximum to an LD50. For those that don't know, scientists measure the exsposure limit to a certain substance by measuring how much it takes to kill 50% of the population. The absolute maximum may be something like the LD50 where intel has found that some (but not necessarily all) chips would degrade over time using voltages that high. -- Now this is conjecture and Intel has never released any kind of report of their internal testing so remember that fact.

What has never made sense to me is that if you believe that the maximum VID is the maximum vcore, then you would degrade at voltages above the maximum VID. Then, what is the absolute maximum? What does that mean? The only answer that I could come up with was nothing that simply the statement doesn't make sense. I have emailed Intel to ask about most of the items in my thread and have never recieved a single response. A clarification on the unneccessary wordiness and lack of definition in this section is one of the things I wanted clarrified.

Nice find on the 32nm maximums/minimums. I hadn't really looked for it yet.
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post #492 of 599
Sorry to be a 2 week necromancer, but I just saw this.

I figured a link to Pizzaman's Intel Voltage charts would prove useful here
http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/...ges-temps.html
    
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post #493 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by W4LNUT5 View Post
Sorry to be a 2 week necromancer, but I just saw this.

I figured a link to Pizzaman's Intel Voltage charts would prove useful here
http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/...ges-temps.html
If you're gonna link it in this thread, I need to start updating it.....
    
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post #494 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaMan View Post
If you're gonna link it in this thread, I need to start updating it.....
Ah, it's fine. lol, it has i7 stuff on it. Who uses i5's anyways? lol
    
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post #495 of 599
Who uses i5? Po folk like me the difference between i5 and i7 is either a better video card or about a hundred beers. Still tryin to get my priorities straight.

A couple months ago, I exchanged my Coolmax psu for a Corsair and Thermaltake cpu fan for a Zalman, mostly because of the noise but hoping for better cooling as well and wanted to see what the temp was because my case is not great for cooling … it’s old but I’ve got NXZT M59 coming so that should help the temps. I’ve got an Intel board now that doesn’t show any stats in the bios so I installed the Intel Utility but it doesn’t show temp … only Processor Thermal Margin (PTM) which was at 34. It does have 3 m/b temps, ICH and MCH though.

Anyway, I ran across SpeedFan and the 3 m/b temps (43-46 C), ICH (49) and MCH (48) were pretty close to Intels utility and the Core temps were about 42-44 at idle. Then I ran across another thread and downloaded Real Temp (RT) and Core Temp (CT). Well, RT was registering 52-54 C for core temperatures and CT was at 45-47 C, so which temp was right?

Then I found this thread and WOW! everything is sooo much clearer now. Scratch SpeedFan for now. I finally figured out, I think, the PTM is the amount of degrees before the cpu throttles down?? (If I take TJ Max @ 80 C – my PTM of 34 C = 45 C, which is right about where I’m at) From this thread, I noticed that RT used “90 C†for its TJ Max and Core temp uses “85 C†for its TJ Max so that accounts for the 5 degree difference so I set RT to 85 C as well. I know I’m still running on the hot side but that should be taken care of with the new case.

Thanks again to ChickenInferno, as well as all the other contributors, for all the information. It’s been an immense help.
post #496 of 599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puterfx View Post
I’ve got an Intel board now that doesn’t show any stats in the bios so I installed the Intel Utility but it doesn’t show temp … only Processor Thermal Margin (PTM) which was at 34. It does have 3 m/b temps, ICH and MCH though.
I've never used the intel utility you are refferring to but I would bet that it is synonymous with TJ Max.

Quote:
Originally Posted by puterfx View Post
Anyway, I ran across SpeedFan and the 3 m/b temps (43-46 C), ICH (49) and MCH (48) were pretty close to Intels utility and the Core temps were about 42-44 at idle. Then I ran across another thread and downloaded Real Temp (RT) and Core Temp (CT). Well, RT was registering 52-54 C for core temperatures and CT was at 45-47 C, so which temp was right?
RealTemp and CoreTemp should be reading the TJ Max off of your chip, which is very odd that they are reading different TJ Max values. The i5's like the i7's are almost exclusively TJ Max=100

Quote:
Originally Posted by puterfx View Post
Then I found this thread and WOW! everything is sooo much clearer now. Scratch SpeedFan for now. I finally figured out, I think, the PTM is the amount of degrees before the cpu throttles down?? (If I take TJ Max @ 80 C – my PTM of 34 C = 45 C, which is right about where I’m at) From this thread, I noticed that RT used “90 C†for its TJ Max and Core temp uses “85 C†for its TJ Max so that accounts for the 5 degree difference so I set RT to 85 C as well. I know I’m still running on the hot side but that should be taken care of with the new case.
I would try something really quick. Delete your core temp and real temp files. Download fresh/new copies, and post a screenshot with both open/unchanged with a CPU-Z screen. I am curious to see if RealTemp and CoreTemp really are failing to read the correct TJ Max off your i5.
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post #497 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenInferno View Post
I've never used the intel utility you are refferring to but I would bet that it is synonymous with TJ Max.


RealTemp and CoreTemp should be reading the TJ Max off of your chip, which is very odd that they are reading different TJ Max values. The i5's like the i7's are almost exclusively TJ Max=100


I would try something really quick. Delete your core temp and real temp files. Download fresh/new copies, and post a screenshot with both open/unchanged with a CPU-Z screen. I am curious to see if RealTemp and CoreTemp really are failing to read the correct TJ Max off your i5.
Socket 1156 i5 and i7 normally has 99 deg C 'TjMax' (according to the docs, when PROCHOT gets asserted, which could imply the same thing).

Attachment 140513

Another problem with RealTemp and CoreTemp is the fact that they only take 1 reading per second per Core (as far as I can see).

The Nehalem range of CPU's check the temp for possible overheating every millisecond. So in theory the reading changes at least 1000 times per second.

I have written my own temperature monitor, that does 50 readings a second per core, and get averaged over 1 second (and accordingly updated to a UI at that interval). Temperatures are much more consistent read like that. RT and CT frequently jumps more than 8 deg between readings at idle. In my app, the readings does not jump more than a few degrees (at most 2-3).

So whether that 1ms stray reading counts for you, is up to you, to me it means nothing.

Edited by leppie - 2/7/10 at 9:26am
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post #498 of 599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leppie View Post
Socket 1156 i5 and i7 normally has 99 deg C 'TjMax' (according to the docs, when PROCHOT gets asserted, which could imply the same thing).
The links on the intel website are currently down (go to i5 datasheet volume one section 1.7 gives a dead link for thermal specification and design) so I can't verify the 99C, but I have a feeling that Intel wouldn't use an odd number. Everything pretty much ends with 5 or 0 for them with the exception of CPU PLL values which have such a narrow range (ends in 8).


Quote:
Originally Posted by leppie View Post

Another problem with RealTemp and CoreTemp is the fact that they only take 1 reading per second per Core (as far as I can see).

The Nehalem range of CPU's check the temp for possible overheating every millisecond. So in theory the reading changes at least 1000 times per second.
I won't say that I speak for the writers of RealTemp or CoreTemp, but IIRC from what I've read they also do an average of some of the readings and each uses a slightly different algorithm to pick readings and produce results that are very close to each other. We see the average once per second, because otherwise we would have a hard time seeing the readings.
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post #499 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenInferno View Post
The links on the intel website are currently down (go to i5 datasheet volume one section 1.7 gives a dead link for thermal specification and design) so I can't verify the 99C, but I have a feeling that Intel wouldn't use an odd number. Everything pretty much ends with 5 or 0 for them with the exception of CPU PLL values which have such a narrow range (ends in 8).
Anyways that is what is being read from the MSR_TEMPERATURE_TARGET register (99 in my case).


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenInferno View Post
I won't say that I speak for the writers of RealTemp or CoreTemp, but IIRC from what I've read they also do an average of some of the readings and each uses a slightly different algorithm to pick readings and produce results that are very close to each other. We see the average once per second, because otherwise we would have a hard time seeing the readings.
Just a guess looking at the process info, it seems CoreTemp (and RealTemp) does at most 10 readings per second per core. Still 'ignoring' 990 other possible values.

I could make my app's frequency to 1000hz but I think that would incur a fair amount of overhead. I'll add some results later after some testing.
Edited by leppie - 2/7/10 at 9:51am
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post #500 of 599
Right now the computer I'm playing with is a e6600 C2D with a DG965WH board. I'm still putting together the i5-750.. Sorry if I misled you but I can still give you the screenshots if that would help.
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