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The Truth about Temperatures and Voltages - Page 53

post #521 of 599
I set core in settings -10 so it shows my real temps is that right i'm understanding? can someone please explain me in english terms about adjusting Core Temps. I saw and read saying adjust the offset so i set all -10 and i was amazed how my real temps are at low temps. Is this accurate?
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post #522 of 599
I use real Temp and i followed your instructions to set -10 in the core adjust offset option and this is what i have..



Is this the right thing i did and if so.. awesome temps. My room temp is a little cold but not too cold and i am using antec 1200 case and no push pins at all. it's seated very tight too. Can someone tell me if this is accurate? I'm sure it is.
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post #523 of 599
Thread Starter 
I'll address your concerns, but just FYI there is an edit button on the bottom right of your post so that you don't double post. Double posting is pretty frowned on without waiting 24hrs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcnuttie View Post
I set core in settings -10 so it shows my real temps is that right i'm understanding? can someone please explain me in english terms about adjusting Core Temps. I saw and read saying adjust the offset so i set all -10 and i was amazed how my real temps are at low temps. Is this accurate?
Why did you adust the core settings to -10. You have a Core 2 Quad 9400, and according to the chart the TJ Max Target is 100C. Unless Real Temp and Core Temp were showing the TJ Max Value as 110C, you didn't need to adjust it. I can actually see in the picture below that core temp was reading it as 100C, which means it did not need an offset at all. Read the 1st Post. Spend the time, because I wrote it out in English and it's very simple to understand. One of the things that it says is that as the Distance to TJ Max (Shown in Real Temp) increases aka as your temperatures get lower, the accuracy of the sensors

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcnuttie View Post
I use real Temp and i followed your instructions to set -10 in the core adjust offset option and this is what i have..



Is this the right thing i did and if so.. awesome temps. My room temp is a little cold but not too cold and i am using antec 1200 case and no push pins at all. it's seated very tight too. Can someone tell me if this is accurate? I'm sure it is.
The temperature sensors that low are completely innaccurate, but there was no need for you to set an offset.
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post #524 of 599
There is a section in the RealTemp documentation about calibration if you're interested.

http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/docs.php

If you are able to accurately measure room temperature near your open computer case then it can be used to see if your reported core temperatures are in the ball park or not. It's not a good idea to randomly make adjustments without doing some testing first.

RealTemp 3.56
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip
post #525 of 599
Someone just posted this elsewhere on the forum. Thought it looked like it belonged in this thread.

http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1482/

It's a good read about how voltage effects processors.
    
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post #526 of 599
Well I didnt want to start a new thread on the same topic so I am going to chime in to this one....

I have been doing a bit of research today on the subject of temps.

I finally got a better board to put my E4300 on and am doing some clocking when I remembered just how hot it ran....

So I decided to rummage through the data sheets some more and came to these details....

First is the sheet explaining Processor Case Temp




Here is where Cast Temp is read from



This is what starting drawing my attention. Tc = Case Temp.




Now these are the same numbers as listed on intelspecfinder.com. These are not referring to the Tjunction temps, ore as we know them the core temps.



I also found some info regarding different CPU's, and its actually seperated by cpuid. Which kinda makes me wonder how they came to these conclusions. Were the different revisions that much different in design..



That shows thermal spec of 61.4c Tcase for E4000 and E6000 2MB L2 Cache and CPUID = 06f2h

Now look at this one



That shows the E4000 with 2MB L2 Cache and CPUID = 06FDh & E4700 CPUID = 06FBh as having a Tcase maximum of 73.3c


There are a bunch of different charts for different CPUID.....

I have not dove into the 45nm yet, but I think most are now going to be in the 72c range.....


What strikes me as interesting is that the Tcase max temp is what is listed on intel spec finder, and in the data sheets. And Tjunction is on page one of this thread and are in the ranges of 80c - 100c.....


While I will always say less heat is better. This gives me an extra bit of comfort in clocking my E4300 as it is already at 70c on Core0 and Core1 and I am only at 1.36v for 2.7GHz.......

Tcase is around 58 - 60 though...... Would like to hear some others thoughts...
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post #527 of 599
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10acjed View Post
Well I didnt want to start a new thread on the same topic so I am going to chime in to this one....

I have been doing a bit of research today on the subject of temps.

I finally got a better board to put my E4300 on and am doing some clocking when I remembered just how hot it ran....

So I decided to rummage through the data sheets some more and came to these details....

First is the sheet explaining Processor Case Temp

-img- Images ommited for shorter post


Here is where Cast Temp is read from

-img- Images ommited for shorter post

This is what starting drawing my attention. Tc = Case Temp.

-img- Images ommited for shorter post


Now these are the same numbers as listed on intelspecfinder.com. These are not referring to the Tjunction temps, ore as we know them the core temps.
Correct. This is also stated slightly differently (Same Content) in the CPU Thermal Specification section of the 1st Post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10acjed View Post
I also found some info regarding different CPU's, and its actually seperated by cpuid. Which kinda makes me wonder how they came to these conclusions. Were the different revisions that much different in design..

-img- Images ommited for shorter post

That shows thermal spec of 61.4c Tcase for E4000 and E6000 2MB L2 Cache and CPUID = 06f2h

Now look at this one

-img- Images ommited for shorter post

That shows the E4000 with 2MB L2 Cache and CPUID = 06FDh & E4700 CPUID = 06FBh as having a Tcase maximum of 73.3c
This is another example of how Intel has changed the Thermal Specification between steppings. Since Intel is constantly trying to improve their manufactering process (decreases loses and increases profits), I would expect that in a new stepping the thermal specification (and the TJ Max) would increase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10acjed View Post
There are a bunch of different charts for different CPUID.....

I have not dove into the 45nm yet, but I think most are now going to be in the 72c range.....


What strikes me as interesting is that the Tcase max temp is what is listed on intel spec finder, and in the data sheets. And Tjunction is on page one of this thread and are in the ranges of 80c - 100c.....


While I will always say less heat is better. This gives me an extra bit of comfort in clocking my E4300 as it is already at 70c on Core0 and Core1 and I am only at 1.36v for 2.7GHz.......

Tcase is around 58 - 60 though...... Would like to hear some others thoughts...
Everything you've posted is really the point of this thread. To make people aware that Thermal Spec(Tcase) is not the same temperature as your core temps (it is generally much lower). I think you accidently tripped over alot of the discussion in the last 50 pages or so and came to the right conclusions



-----------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaMan View Post
Someone just posted this elsewhere on the forum. Thought it looked like it belonged in this thread.

http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1482/

It's a good read about how voltage effects processors.
I read this when you posted this up a few days ago on my phone, but my rig has been down so I haven't had a chance to respond. The article was very interesting, but I think it glossed over a few things. Part of this may end up mixing into the Article.
Edited by ChickenInferno - 2/27/10 at 5:31pm
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post #528 of 599
When you get down to it all these temps mean crap. Once you start overvolting your proc you can take all these figures and throw them out the window. Stability is more important. Basically. once you start increasing voltage for more Mhz your highest 'stable' temperature limit gets lower. I've come to not really worry to much about temps so long as it's stable. The chip will degrade no matter what. The rate of degrading increases as you increase temp, Mhz and voltage. There is no safe voltage or temp, only a slower rate of degrading. No proc is going to last forever. Even stock procs die.
    
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post #529 of 599
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaMan View Post
When you get down to it all these temps mean crap. Once you start overvolting your proc you can take all these figures and throw them out the window. Stability is more important. Basically. once you start increasing voltage for more Mhz your highest 'stable' temperature limit gets lower. I've come to not really worry to much about temps so long as it's stable. The chip will degrade no matter what. The rate of degrading increases as you increase temp, Mhz and voltage. There is no safe voltage or temp, only a slower rate of degrading. No proc is going to last forever. Even stock procs die.
Stock CPUs do die eventually (10yrs+), but if you get real stability with an overclocked cpu, then you can make it last just as long as a stock CPU. With the number of people that are starting to overclock and deciding that 10runs of LinX on 1gb of ram is good enough for a stability testing, there might be a rash of CPUs degrading heavily coming up. This is why I would only buy a used CPU from a handful of people. You are right that temperatures don't really matter that much in the long run, because if your temperatures are too high, then you won't be able to make it stable. Most of the point to this article is to get people to relax about their temperatures and stringently test stability that way their CPUs can last 10yrs+.
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post #530 of 599
Ya, but you can't really argue the fact that the chips would have probably lasted longer at slower speeds with lower volts. Can't really test the fact either. All chips are not equal and there's no way of knowing what one chip 'would have' done if not overclocked. Hardware degrades over use. There's no stopping it. Though, we can take measures to help prolong it's life. Stability. It's like good health for your hardware. Gotta keep it stressed and tested regularly under many different exercises to keep it healthily.

In short..... Run MULTIPLE stress test utilities people.

What an epic thread. Been a great learning xp.
    
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