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The Truth about Temperatures and Voltages - Page 57

post #561 of 599
^^That's basically it.

IIRC in the later version of windows you can check the event log to see how many performance states (P-states) are reported. If there is zero, one or they are all the same then you will probably not see any multiplier changes even if EIST is enabled.
Edited by ucode - 4/15/10 at 4:18am
post #562 of 599
Also, I think EIST is managed by the OS to some extent (for example, with Vista and Win 7 you can alter the Max and Min processor state), while C1E is OS-independent. But don't quote me on that.
    
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post #563 of 599
Yeah, I have no fluctuating multipliers or voltages, so despite what Real Temp says, EIST is not working
post #564 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex98uk View Post
Yeah, I have no fluctuating multipliers or voltages, so despite what Real Temp says, EIST is not working
Yeah, Real Temp claims I have EIST enabled too.
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post #565 of 599
Real Temp is probably just reading a flag that says if it's enabled or not. Enabled != working
    
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post #566 of 599
I'm not sure you're accurate about 1.55V being a safe limit for the i7. According to this data sheet:

Quote:
Table 2-6 specifies absolute maximum and minimum ratings, which lie outside the functional limits of the processor. Only within specified operation limits can functionality and long-term reliability be expected.

At conditions outside functional operation condition limits, but within absolute maximum and minimum ratings, neither functionality nor long-term reliability can be expected. If a device is returned to conditions within functional operation limits after having been subjected to conditions outside these limits, but within the absolute maximum and minimum ratings, the device may be functional, but with its lifetime degraded depending on exposure to conditions exceeding the functional operation condition limits.
Indeed, the referenced Table 2-6 shows a maximum VCore voltage of 1.55V. This is, however, an absolute max, and the two paragraphs above both state that long-term reliability cannot be expected at voltages more than the "functional operation condition limits" (presumably 1.375V?) but less than the absolute minimum voltages.
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post #567 of 599
I'm having bit of a hard time understanding this:
If an overclocked CPU get some errors in, for instance Prime95, BSOD or freezes, it will cause physical damage to the CPU, and/or will make the computer slower and worse even at daily day use (means, not crashing in stabilty tests)?
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post #568 of 599
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieck View Post
I'm not sure you're accurate about 1.55V being a safe limit for the i7. According to this data sheet:



Indeed, the referenced Table 2-6 shows a maximum VCore voltage of 1.55V. This is, however, an absolute max, and the two paragraphs above both state that long-term reliability cannot be expected at voltages more than the "functional operation condition limits" (presumably 1.375V?) but less than the absolute minimum voltages.
The number 1.375v is roughly the VID range of what Intel is willing to sell. However, Intel never refers to their VID range when referring to cpu life, absolute maxs/mins, or anything else that would affect possible degredation.

To quote myself:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenInferno View Post



What about Maximum Voltages and Overclocking?
If you run at or below the Absolute Maximum Voltages for your CPU, you should never experience degredation or lose of life on your CPU. Overclocking will not decrease the lifetime of your CPU if and only if certain criteria are met. These four specifications being met are defined as running in the functional operation limit.

1.) Electrical Specification must be satisfied (1.55v for 65nm Core 2 Series and 1.45v for 45nm Core 2 Series, 45nm Core i7/i5 list 1.55v as their maximum, and 32nm Core i5 list as 1.40v. Make sure you check all other voltage specifications for VTT and CPU PLL. (Dram voltage on the i7 is a different story).

2.) Signal Quality must be clear (Overclock must be perfectly stable, GTL lanes may need to be tweaked)

3.) Mechanical specifications met (There is not a physical defect and the insides have not previously been gutted by running 1.9v through it)

4.) Thermal Specifications must be satisfied (The IHS temp must be below Tcase)


According to Intel, "Within functional operation limits, functionality and long-term reliability can be expected." This says nothing about running over stock voltages or stock clocks. Only that you need to be stable, cool, below the maximum voltage, and mechanically sound at any speed.


For the exact wording in the Intel document

Source - Page 19
The functional operation limits aren't just describing the voltage and saying "here's the max but stay within the functional operation limits." It is more strict. It is saying here are the maximums for four parameters and you must stay below right below the maximums of all of them to be in the functional operation limits. This is very heavily alluded to in the white sheets, but honestly it's one of the few things that's clear.

I used a logic arguement in my VID thread that most people seem to accept even if they don't like the straight from the white sheets approach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenInferno View Post

Is the VID range the maximum vcore for overclocking?
NO. The maximum VID shown on the Intel Datasheets is not the maximum vcore for overclocking. For each series of processors there is a chart of Absolute Maximums and Minimums, which are the exactly as they sound: the maximum and minimum voltages you can safely run without hurting the CPU. However, caution should be taken at exactly these voltages as Intel implies that a 1.55v maximum means that 1.55v is not okay, but 1.54v would be okay. The VID range is simply the range of VID that Intel is willing to sell.
For 65nm Core 2 Series, the Absolute Max is 1.55v.
For 45nm Core 2 Series, the Absolute Max is 1.45v
For 45nm Core i7 900/800 and Core i5 700 Series, the absolute max is 1.55v
For 32nm Core i5 600 and Core i3 500 Series, the absolute max is 1.40v

The logic argument to the VID range being the maximum vcore allowed is simply the question of what does the Absolute Maximum mean if the VID range is the Absolute Maximum. This argument is also proven in the Intel Datasheets for the i7 900 Series, where they show the pin configuration for up to 1.60v, when the absolute maximum voltage is 1.55v. The VID is simply a pin configuration in order for the CPU to request the proper amount of power and has nothing to do with maximum voltages.
Page 15

Hope that helped clear this up for you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by vsloth View Post
I'm having bit of a hard time understanding this:
If an overclocked CPU get some errors in, for instance Prime95, BSOD or freezes, it will cause physical damage to the CPU, and/or will make the computer slower and worse even at daily day use (means, not crashing in stabilty tests)?
CPU instability can cause CPU degredation and given enough time possible CPU death. CPU errors are a sign that a voltage is going through your cpu in a non-standard way and is hitting things it shouldn't. Overclocking is fine as long as the CPU is completely stable.
Edited by ChickenInferno - 5/5/10 at 4:29am
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post #569 of 599
Thanks for clearing that out!
My new 930 is completly stable in all my every day use, rendering, gaming, and all kinds of things, but fails in Prime95.. I'll try to make it 100 % stable now!
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post #570 of 599
Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense now! Off to 4.2-4.3 GHz I go, at insanely high voltages.
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