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The Truth about Temperatures and Voltages - Page 7

post #61 of 599
Thread Starter 
When the Taipei conference happened, I had saved the link for the presentation which caused so much uproar with the TJ Max Targets for the Q6600's. My link was dead, but I found it again simply by searching for "Taipei TJ Max DTS" and eventually found my way to Here where the second post said the magic word "Correction"

It's not directly found (so far) from searching through intel.com, but it is on intel.com
Edited by ChickenInferno - 8/8/09 at 9:20am
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post #62 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunion View Post
I interpret this as saying possible damage has already occured, if the processor is throttling(THERMTRIP).

Yes, this is why some like to keep a certain distance away from TJmax. Seeing as most of us use TCase thermal threshold, we have gotten use to staying around 30C below TJmax. Though, from my readings of the data sheets damage normally starts around ~12C before TJmax. Some may damage sooner then others.
    
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post #63 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunion View Post
I interpret this as saying possible damage has already occured, if the processor is throttling(THERMTRIP).
But it's saying that the temperature has reached a level beyond where permanent damage may occur, not has occurred.
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post #64 of 599
I am still confused about my I7 C0/C1, is the Tj supposed to be 100?
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post #65 of 599
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaMan View Post
+rep

I've been searching for this. I noticed it does say 'target T' meaning that each chip might not be exactly 90C, but will be close. They also say that in this quote.


TYVM for the link. Now one last question. I would like to know how to find that on Intel's site. Can you link me the page in which the link came from?
It is the Target TJ Max like I said in the first post. It could above or below for each chip, but it's the closest that we can come.




Quote:
Originally Posted by grunion View Post
I interpret this as saying possible damage has already occured, if the processor is throttling(THERMTRIP).
By the time you have hit THERMTRIP#, you are already past Tcase and yes, damage may have occured. In terms of raw numbers and proposing arbitrarily a Tcase of 71C. In order to even have a Tcase at 71C, the cores need to be running at 81C. THERMTRIP# is activated when the temperature is 20C above Tcase meaning that the IHS would need to be 91C and the cores running at 101C! That's extremely high by anyone's standards. Intel is saying damage may have occured when the cores are running at 101C and THERMTRIP# was activated, that's quite different than saying you will kill your chip if you let the cores hit 71C.

I'm thinking of THERMTRIP# as an emergency shutoff; if you had to hit it something bad has already happened.
Edited by ChickenInferno - 8/8/09 at 9:27am
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post #66 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenInferno View Post
It is the Target TJ Max like I said in the first post. It could above or below for each chip, but it's the closest that we can come.






By the time you have hit THERMTIP#, you are already past Tcase and yes, damage may have occured. I'm thinking of THERMTRIP# as an emergency shutoff; if you had to hit it something bad has already happened.
From everything I've read and from all the information we've provided, it looks like it's by design to prevent permanent damage even though it may have already happened. It's almost like it's saying "permanent damage may occur if THERMTRIP# isn't asserted".
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post #67 of 599
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaMan View Post


The PROCHOT# activation temperature is calibrated on
a part-by-part basis and normal factory variation may result in
the actual activation temperature being higher than the value
listed in the register. PROCHOT# activation temperatures may
change based on processor stepping, frequency or manufacturing
efficiencies.
along with the definition of PROCHOT#
Quote:
As an output, PROCHOT# (Processor Hot) will go active when the
processor temperature monitoring sensor detects that the
processor has reached its maximum safe operating temperature.
This indicates that the processor Thermal Control Circuit (TCC)
has been activated, if enabled. As an input, assertion of
PROCHOT# by the system will activate the TCC, if enabled. The
TCC will remain active until the system de-asserts PROCHOT#.
See Section 5.2.4 for more details
Shows that it is the slightly earlier warning sign that the CPU is getting too hot, but unfortunately it never reveals even aproximately where it is. Like the quote you posted, it should vary for each chip, but where is it? Again, Intel keeps us in the dark.
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post #68 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenInferno View Post
It is the Target TJ Max like I said in the first post. It could above or below for each chip, but it's the closest that we can come.






By the time you have hit THERMTRIP#, you are already past Tcase and yes, damage may have occured. In terms of raw numbers and proposing arbitrarily a Tcase of 71C. In order to even have a Tcase at 71C, the cores need to be running at 81C. THERMTRIP# is activated when the temperature is 20C above Tcase meaning that the IHS would need to be 91C and the cores running at 101C! That's extremely high by anyone's standards. Intel is saying damage may have occured when the cores are running at 101C and THERMTRIP# was activated, that's quite different than saying you will kill your chip if you let the cores hit 71C.

I'm thinking of THERMTRIP# as an emergency shutoff; if you had to hit it something bad has already happened.


Thermtrip starts when tj max on the cores is reached, so please clarify the above, I'm confused.
Regardless of set tj max, 90, 95, 100°c, distance remains the same and throttling occurs once those numbers are reached on any core.
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post #69 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunion View Post
Thermtrip starts when tj max on the cores is reached, so please clarify the above, I'm confused.
Regardless of set tj max, 90, 95, 100°c, distance remains the same and throttling occurs once those numbers are reached on any core.
Yes, the distance remains the same no matter how you have TJmax set. With that being said, using CoreTemp or a similar program that can show you the distance from TJmax is truely the most acurate way to monitor temps.
    
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post #70 of 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaMan View Post
Yes, the distance remains the same no matter how you have TJmax set. With that being said, using CoreTemp or a similar program that can show you the distance from TJmax is truely the most acurate way to monitor temps.
But that depends on which Tj. Max the software is using. So, it must be calibrated correctly in order to get the most accurate temps.
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