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[Official] Mechanical Keyboard Guide - Page 122

post #1211 of 14551
Hello, folks, this is my inaugural message with my new IBM Model M which just landed on my porch fifteen minutes ago. This thing is nice. I think I'm gonna go over it with some isopropyl and Q-tips later on, get it looking shiny again, but still... I can already tell I'm typing faster. I'll probably get even faster when I stop bottoming out the keys.

Thanks for putting me onto these Manyak, this is way nicer than that HP multimedia rubber-dome board.
post #1212 of 14551
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post #1213 of 14551
I have a question, Razer claims their arctosa and lycosa have "ultra polling 1000hz 1ms response time" just like gaming mice have, which i have come to love after upgrading from my MX518 (125hz 8ms response time) to various 1000hz 1ms response mice, it is a very noticeable improvement.

What hz do regular $20 USB keyboards have? What hz do bargain USB mechanical keyboards like the ABS m1 have? and finally what is the hz of the $100+ NKRO PS/2 keyboards have?

Sorry for all the questions lol, just want to know if razer is trying to scam with a gimmick or if it is indeed faster then other keyboards that do not advertise their polling rate.
post #1214 of 14551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auld View Post
I have a question, Razer claims their arctosa and lycosa have "ultra polling 1000hz 1ms response time" just like gaming mice have, which i have come to love after upgrading from my MX518 (125hz 8ms response time) to various 1000hz 1ms response mice, it is a very noticeable improvement.

What hz do regular $20 USB keyboards have? What hz do bargain USB mechanical keyboards like the ABS m1 have? and finally what is the hz of the $100+ NKRO PS/2 keyboards have?

Sorry for all the questions lol, just want to know if razer is trying to scam with a gimmick or if it is indeed faster then other keyboards that do not advertise their polling rate.
first post


----------------------------

Key Bouncing
All types of key switches - including rubber domes - do this. When you press a key, the switch "bounces" on and off very quickly as it sets into place. This causes keys to register multiple times for each press. Because of this, keyboards need to implement some sort of debouncing delay - so that once you press a key, the controller waits a certain amount of time before registering a keypress. As an example, Cherry MX switches need 5ms of debouncing time, while rubber domes need longer (exactly how long depends on their quality).

Polling Rates and Response Times
While it is very useful for mice, it's just about meaningless for keyboards. Let's assume for a minute that all switches have the 5ms debouncing time of Cherry MX switches (which is being very generous). Even if you had super human speed and reflexes, every single key would be delayed by at least that much. So really, any polling rate over 200Hz (at best) is absolutely useless, and nothing but market hype. It may even be a bit detrimental, because you'd be wasting CPU time polling the keyboard unneededly. And unlike USB keyboards, PS/2 boards aren't polled at all. They simply send the signal to the PC whenever they are ready to, which causes a hardware interrupt, forcing the CPU to register that keystroke.

PS/2 or USB?
PS/2 wins on three fronts: First, it supports full n-key rollover. Second, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based. And third, it is impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices. There are two types of USB transfer modes - the interrupt transfer mode (USB polls keyboard, when key is sensed the USB controller sends the interrupt to the CPU), and the isochronous transfer mode, which reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards made that use the latter, because special controllers would have to be used, thus making it cost prohibitive.

So if your keyboard supports both PS/2 and USB, and your PC has a PS/2 port, there's no reason not to use it.


-----------------------------

PS/2 of any kind beats usb for input speed.
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post #1215 of 14551
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle-reece View Post
first post


----------------------------

Key Bouncing
All types of key switches - including rubber domes - do this. When you press a key, the switch "bounces" on and off very quickly as it sets into place. This causes keys to register multiple times for each press. Because of this, keyboards need to implement some sort of debouncing delay - so that once you press a key, the controller waits a certain amount of time before registering a keypress. As an example, Cherry MX switches need 5ms of debouncing time, while rubber domes need longer (exactly how long depends on their quality).

Polling Rates and Response Times
While it is very useful for mice, it's just about meaningless for keyboards. Let's assume for a minute that all switches have the 5ms debouncing time of Cherry MX switches (which is being very generous). Even if you had super human speed and reflexes, every single key would be delayed by at least that much. So really, any polling rate over 200Hz (at best) is absolutely useless, and nothing but market hype. It may even be a bit detrimental, because you'd be wasting CPU time polling the keyboard unneededly. And unlike USB keyboards, PS/2 boards aren't polled at all. They simply send the signal to the PC whenever they are ready to, which causes a hardware interrupt, forcing the CPU to register that keystroke.

PS/2 or USB?
PS/2 wins on three fronts: First, it supports full n-key rollover. Second, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based. And third, it is impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices. There are two types of USB transfer modes - the interrupt transfer mode (USB polls keyboard, when key is sensed the USB controller sends the interrupt to the CPU), and the isochronous transfer mode, which reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards made that use the latter, because special controllers would have to be used, thus making it cost prohibitive.

So if your keyboard supports both PS/2 and USB, and your PC has a PS/2 port, there's no reason not to use it.


-----------------------------

PS/2 of any kind beats usb for input speed.
Thanks, i read through it and completely missed it.
post #1216 of 14551
The ABS M1 isn't really a bargain gaming keyboard; it has mechanical switches so it costs quite a bit more to make and is a bargain only in that instead of paying $80 for a keyboard that cost $10 to make, you're paying $50 for one that cost $35 to make.
post #1217 of 14551
Just got the Steelseries 7g today. Played a few games of CS:S and so far so good. Going to test drive it further for about a week to see how I feel about it then. Also, typing on it isn't as bad I thought it would be but I like stiff keys to begin with.
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post #1218 of 14551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
The ABS M1 isn't really a bargain gaming keyboard; it has mechanical switches so it costs quite a bit more to make and is a bargain only in that instead of paying $80 for a keyboard that cost $10 to make, you're paying $50 for one that cost $35 to make.
I was going to buy one until i stumbled upon many people posting about the ABS M1 having key rollover problems as well as others mentioned here: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:7122
post #1219 of 14551
I've heard they've resolved that problem, that was just in the first batch.
post #1220 of 14551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
I've heard they've resolved that problem, that was just in the first batch.
That would be great because it is the only mechanical keyboard i can afford but many bad reviews are late this year, there is even a newegg review as recent as 12/17/09 complaining about the slow scan rate that was mentioned in the geekhack review.
Edited by Derp - 12/29/09 at 11:43pm
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