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[Official] Mechanical Keyboard Guide - Page 224

post #2231 of 14564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
lol

What's even cooler is that if you google "mechanical keyboards" this thread is the 1st result
Quite true, and I'm here as a result. Hiya. I've actually been a mostly lurking member of Overclock, but never even saw this forum til the google search that punctuated six weeks and 12 keyboard purchases. 12.

A couple months ago my Logitech S510 died and began to shop for a new board. At first I tried to get something similar, then a strange thing happened: my taste in keyboards began to evolve. I started with low profile, scissor switch models, then after purchasing a standard-ish (regular profile, membrane) I realized I preferred more 'normal' keys, without quite knowing why or what I even meant by it. After purchasing an $8 Lite-On from Newegg and preferring it to the more expensive boards, I knew something was amiss, and I began to think the answer was hidden in low cost boards.

Evolution was as follows:

-MS Comfort Curve 2000- Liked the key feel, soft but not mushy, quiet, sturdy. Didn't like the curve.
-MS models 500 and 600, wireless 3000.
-Logitech 250, 300
-Lite-On SK 1788, 1688 (the 1788 is one of the highest rated boards on Newegg. 460 reviews, many of them quite amusing, with over 80% positive; and oddly most reviews are not about the $7 price tag, but the key feel.)
-Rosewill RK-7300, 7310 (the 7300 was actually the best scissor switch I've used, very solidly built and designed for a $15 board)
-Gigabyte GK-K6800 (wobbled, but I think we're gonna see good things from Gigabyte)
-Logitech K-320 (new model, terrible)
-Logitech Illuminated (really nice, but at that point I started to realize I didn't like low profile)
-Keytronic Classic II (my evolution begins to take shape. However the "L" key didn't work, ha. Returned)
-Dell stock keyboard (the one that comes with new models)
-Gateway KB-2961 (a stock Gateway keyboard, fairly recent. Weighs near 3lbs and was the best board thus far and what I'm using now.).
-Lenovo Preferred Pro (or something, forget) just bought off Ebay and in the mail. I discovered this at Best Buy. It's the keyboard THEY use at all their workstations, but they don't sell it! It had a really nice feel, solid).

Uh oh, that's more than 12 now isn't it. 16 and I probably missed a couple. My friends and coworkers have become rather annoyed with my daily ranting about the different types of membranes and switches, but they've enjoyed the free keyboards I've been passing out. Up until this point I've been self-educated: "Hey guys, check this out: this one uses a solid membrane sheet, while the other uses individual nubs!".. coworker: "Dude, you need meds."

I began to think I preferred membrane, but now see that may not be it. I'm obsessed. A friend sent me a link to Das Keyboard, which prompted the google search for mechanical. After spending like $170 so far, I'm willing to just pay whatever it takes to end this nightmare. The $250 topre boards are enticing, but I don't want to pay that for something I've never tried. After reading your post, at this point the Filco cherry brown appeals to me. I've spent the last month taking keyboards apart to see what was what, and discovering this thread was like the clouds opening up, choir singing.

Sorry for the huge post, but ya know, I do love typin'. I have some commentary on the Filco design, but I'll stop here.

P.S. I'm in charge of classroom technology for a state university that shall go unnamed, heh, and we have storerooms of old surplus keyboards: Dells, Gateways, Cherry, many with smart card readers..no IBM though, and no mechanicals of any kind that I've found.
Edited by Otterclock - 3/14/10 at 6:40am
    
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post #2232 of 14564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otterclock View Post
Quite true, and I'm here as a result. Hiya. I've actually been a mostly lurking member of Overclock, but never even saw this forum til the google search that punctuated six weeks and 12 keyboard purchases. 12.

A couple months ago my Logitech S510 died and began to shop for a new board. At first I tried to get something similar, then a strange thing happened: my taste in keyboards began to evolve. I started with low profile, scissor switch models, then after purchasing a standard-ish (regular profile, membrane) I realized I preferred more 'normal' keys, without quite knowing why or what I even meant by it. After purchasing an $8 Lite-On from Newegg and preferring it to the more expensive boards, I knew something was amiss, and I began to think the answer was hidden in low cost boards.

Evolution was as follows:

-MS Comfort Curve 2000- Liked the key feel, soft but not mushy, quiet, sturdy. Didn't like the curve.
-MS models 500 and 600, wireless 3000.
-Logitech 250, 300
-Lite-On SK 1788, 1688 (the 1788 is one of the highest rated boards on Newegg. 460 reviews, many of them quite amusing, with over 80% positive; and oddly most reviews are not about the $7 price tag, but the key feel.)
-Rosewill RK-7300, 7310 (the 7300 was actually the best scissor switch I've used, very solidly built and designed for a $15 board)
-Gigabyte GK-K6800 (wobbled, but I think we're gonna see good things from Gigabyte)
-Logitech K-320 (new model, terrible)
-Logitech Illuminated (really nice, but at that point I started to realize I didn't like low profile)
-Keytronic Classic II (my evolution begins to take shape. However the "L" key didn't work, ha. Returned)
-Dell stock keyboard (the one that comes with new models)
-Gateway KB-2961 (a stock Gateway keyboard, fairly recent. Weighs near 3lbs and was the best board thus far and what I'm using now.).
-Lenovo Preferred Pro (or something, forget) just bought off Ebay and in the mail. I discovered this at Best Buy. It's the keyboard THEY use at all their workstations, but they don't sell it! It had a really nice feel, solid).

Uh oh, that's more than 12 now isn't it. 16 and I probably missed a couple. My friends and coworkers have become rather annoyed with my daily ranting about the different types of membranes and switches, but they've enjoyed the free keyboards I've been passing out. Up until this point I've been self-educated: "Hey guys, check this out: this one uses a solid membrane sheet, while the other uses individual nubs!".. coworker: "Dude, you need meds."

I began to think I preferred membrane, but now see that may not be it. I'm obsessed. A friend sent me a link to Das Keyboard, which prompted the google search for mechanical. After spending like $170 so far, I'm willing to just pay whatever it takes to end this nightmare. The $250 topre boards are enticing, but I don't want to pay that for something I've never tried. After reading your post, at this point the Filco cherry brown appeals to me. I've spent the last month taking keyboards apart to see what was what, and discovering this thread was like the clouds opening up, choir singing.

Sorry for the huge post, but ya know, I do love typin'. I have some commentary on the Filco design, but I'll stop here.

P.S. I'm in charge of classroom technology for a state university that shall go unnamed, heh, and we have storerooms of old surplus keyboards: Dells, Gateways, Cherry, many with smart card readers..no IBM though, and no mechanicals of any kind that I've found.
Actually, to be honest I would enjoy reading your commentary on the Filco design since I'm a new (and blissfully happy) owner of the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO.

But rest assured that I carefully read this entire post, and I actually really enjoy the way you write; it's just so natural and very easy to read. Nice.

Anyway, I am really loving where this evolution is taking you and I am loving your enthusiasm as well. I sincerely hope that you find a keyboard that really does end this seemingly endless nightmare. You definitely came to the right place. In fact, an even better place to go for talking about mechanical keyboards is http://geekhack.org/.
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post #2233 of 14564
thanks for the suggestions here guys, I posted a separate thread since I didn't want to derail this guide anymore
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ml#post8749740
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post #2234 of 14564
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otterclock View Post
Quite true, and I'm here as a result. Hiya. I've actually been a mostly lurking member of Overclock, but never even saw this forum til the google search that punctuated six weeks and 12 keyboard purchases. 12.

A couple months ago my Logitech S510 died and began to shop for a new board. At first I tried to get something similar, then a strange thing happened: my taste in keyboards began to evolve. I started with low profile, scissor switch models, then after purchasing a standard-ish (regular profile, membrane) I realized I preferred more 'normal' keys, without quite knowing why or what I even meant by it. After purchasing an $8 Lite-On from Newegg and preferring it to the more expensive boards, I knew something was amiss, and I began to think the answer was hidden in low cost boards.

Evolution was as follows:

-MS Comfort Curve 2000- Liked the key feel, soft but not mushy, quiet, sturdy. Didn't like the curve.
-MS models 500 and 600, wireless 3000.
-Logitech 250, 300
-Lite-On SK 1788, 1688 (the 1788 is one of the highest rated boards on Newegg. 460 reviews, many of them quite amusing, with over 80% positive; and oddly most reviews are not about the $7 price tag, but the key feel.)
-Rosewill RK-7300, 7310 (the 7300 was actually the best scissor switch I've used, very solidly built and designed for a $15 board)
-Gigabyte GK-K6800 (wobbled, but I think we're gonna see good things from Gigabyte)
-Logitech K-320 (new model, terrible)
-Logitech Illuminated (really nice, but at that point I started to realize I didn't like low profile)
-Keytronic Classic II (my evolution begins to take shape. However the "L" key didn't work, ha. Returned)
-Dell stock keyboard (the one that comes with new models)
-Gateway KB-2961 (a stock Gateway keyboard, fairly recent. Weighs near 3lbs and was the best board thus far and what I'm using now.).
-Lenovo Preferred Pro (or something, forget) just bought off Ebay and in the mail. I discovered this at Best Buy. It's the keyboard THEY use at all their workstations, but they don't sell it! It had a really nice feel, solid).

Uh oh, that's more than 12 now isn't it. 16 and I probably missed a couple. My friends and coworkers have become rather annoyed with my daily ranting about the different types of membranes and switches, but they've enjoyed the free keyboards I've been passing out. Up until this point I've been self-educated: "Hey guys, check this out: this one uses a solid membrane sheet, while the other uses individual nubs!".. coworker: "Dude, you need meds."

I began to think I preferred membrane, but now see that may not be it. I'm obsessed. A friend sent me a link to Das Keyboard, which prompted the google search for mechanical. After spending like $170 so far, I'm willing to just pay whatever it takes to end this nightmare. The $250 topre boards are enticing, but I don't want to pay that for something I've never tried. After reading your post, at this point the Filco cherry brown appeals to me. I've spent the last month taking keyboards apart to see what was what, and discovering this thread was like the clouds opening up, choir singing.

Sorry for the huge post, but ya know, I do love typin'. I have some commentary on the Filco design, but I'll stop here.

P.S. I'm in charge of classroom technology for a state university that shall go unnamed, heh, and we have storerooms of old surplus keyboards: Dells, Gateways, Cherry, many with smart card readers..no IBM though, and no mechanicals of any kind that I've found.

lol, I know how you feel.....I went through about 1 keyboard a month before "discovering" mechanicals, and then went through 1 keyboard a week looking for the switches I'd like the best lol.

Yeah it's not really about membrane vs individual domes, that doesn't really change anything except durability - it's simply the shape of the domes and the composition of the rubber that determines their feel.

If you're pretty sure you'll like Cherry Browns I won't argue. But a lot of people tend to go for them just because they're not clicky, and then find out that they prefer a switch with more precise tactility - so I just want to make sure you're picking them for the feel, not just because you're scared of sound .

The thing with clicky boards is that it's kind of like living near a highway or train station. Once you get used to it, your mind simply blocks out the sound and you don't hear it anymore. Instead you become sensitive to the absence of it - like when you miss a key and the sound gets interrupted, you know something's wrong.
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post #2235 of 14564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
lol, I know how you feel.....I went through about 1 keyboard a month before "discovering" mechanicals, and then went through 1 keyboard a week looking for the switches I'd like the best lol.

Yeah it's not really about membrane vs individual domes, that doesn't really change anything except durability - it's simply the shape of the domes and the composition of the rubber that determines their feel.

If you're pretty sure you'll like Cherry Browns I won't argue. But a lot of people tend to go for them just because they're not clicky, and then find out that they prefer a switch with more precise tactility - so I just want to make sure you're picking them for the feel, not just because you're scared of sound .

The thing with clicky boards is that it's kind of like living near a highway or train station. Once you get used to it, your mind simply blocks out the sound and you don't hear it anymore. Instead you become sensitive to the absence of it - like when you miss a key and the sound gets interrupted, you know something's wrong.
And Otterclock, what I like about the clicks is that it's quieter than the sound of the keycaps bottoming out against the body of the keyboard. So as I get better and better and not bottoming out (or just bottoming out more gently), my keyboard becomes quieter and quieter.

But I also love the way the click sounds. I feel that it's subtle, crisp, high-quaity-sounding, precise, and very satisfying.

I also know what Manyak's talking about when he says that the Cherry MX Blues are very precise: as near as I can tell, the instant the click happens is the exact same moment that the signal is sent to the computer. But the feel of the switches is also incredibly precise as well. I really can't get enough of this keyboard. I think I'm happier with this keyboard than I am with my entire sig rig.
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post #2236 of 14564
Man, I didn't realize keyboards were such a big deal. I got some $10 kb from like Wal-Mart or something.
post #2237 of 14564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowrunner340 View Post
Man, I didn't realize keyboards were such a big deal. I got some $10 kb from like Wal-Mart or something.
This is OCN, where even the keyboards cost hundreds.



Seriously though, how much time do you spend physically with the internals of your computer? You don't touch your GPU all day long, do you? Well, you might, but that would be weird. The parts of your computer you touch the most are your keyboard and mouse, and I guess you could count speakers/headphones and monitor too.

So really, getting the best keyboard possible for you almost makes more sense than getting, oh, 8GB of RAM, or few more megahertz on your processor.
post #2238 of 14564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowrunner340 View Post
Man, I didn't realize keyboards were such a big deal. I got some $10 kb from like Wal-Mart or something.
I'm going to compare it to steak. Why steak? Well, it's like this:

For 20 years, a man has no other steak than what he can get from the local chain-type grocery store (this store has tons of stores in the region). It's just pre-packaged, then shipped to the store and then finally stocked by the meat department. But he says "steak is steak" and so it just doesn't matter to him; he believes that it depends on how skillfully he prepares it. So he is always very happy with it and thinks it's quite good!

But then one day this man goes to a friend's house who serves steak for dinner and it's the best steak he's ever had in his entire life. It turns out that this steak was from the local butcher who's store is close to both him and his friend. The cut of the steak was the same that he has always had throughout his whole life, but it was noticeably much better.

So then he decides to see for himself: the next weekend comes around and he buys his usual cut from that local butcher instead of the grocery store and ends up having that wonderful experience all over again which totally convinces him that it wasn't just a fluke of some kind.

So from that day forward, the man always bought his steak from the local butcher and continued to always have excellent, superior steak that cannot be beat.

So it's the same with keyboards: until you experience it for yourself, it's impossible to know what you're missing out on and therefore it's impossible to understand what all the fuss is about. No amount of words are good enough. But I'll tell you this much: when I'm typing on my new Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO (which is what I am doing right now), I savor every last keystroke just like how I savor every last bit of flavor and every bite of an extra-delicious steak. I never did that with my previous keyboards; not even with my Razer Lycosa which I ended up highly recommending to dozens of people because of how much I liked it. But I didn't know any better.

But to me, comparing a good mechanical keyboard to those average, Rubber Dome membrane keyboards is like comparing a child's pretend tool set to a man's real-life, high-quality professional (top-of-the-line) tool set.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
This is OCN, where even the keyboards cost hundreds.



Seriously though, how much time do you spend physically with the internals of your computer? You don't touch your GPU all day long, do you? Well, you might, but that would be weird. The parts of your computer you touch the most are your keyboard and mouse, and I guess you could count speakers/headphones and monitor too.

So really, getting the best keyboard possible for you almost makes more sense than getting, oh, 8GB of RAM, or few more megahertz on your processor.
Exactly. After all, the keyboard, mouse and monitor are the 3 main input devices that you basically use 100% of the time that you're sitting at your computer, so they'd better be damn good!!
Edited by TwoCables - 3/14/10 at 9:20am
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post #2239 of 14564
I'm starting to think the keyboard I want does not exist (at least as a mechanical keyboard). I'm not a great typist - I've gone beyond 2 fingers, but I certainly don't touch type. I will use it for gaming and, occasionally, for moderate typing (I'm a software engineer/programmer and sometimes work from home). What I need is:

Full 105 key UK layout. That's what I have to use at work, so I want my home keyboard to be the same.
Reasonable n-key rollover (say 5 keys min). I've had issues in some games with the 2-3 of 'normal' keyboards.
Either white/cream/silver, or with decently backlit keys. I struggle with most non-backlit black keyboards (lighter colours are OK) as I often game in lower light. I play games 'left handed', with my right hand is in the area of the number pad and cursor keys, and it's awkward when I need to use the rest of the keyboard.
From what I've read on this thread, it sounds like I'd prefer something like the Cherry Brown keys (or maybe black?).
Available in the UK.

Do you guys think I'll be able to find what I need, or should I give up on looking for a mechanical? Thanks.
post #2240 of 14564
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcogger View Post
I'm starting to think the keyboard I want does not exist (at least as a mechanical keyboard). I'm not a great typist - I've gone beyond 2 fingers, but I certainly don't touch type. I will use it for gaming and, occasionally, for moderate typing (I'm a software engineer/programmer and sometimes work from home). What I need is:

Full 105 key UK layout. That's what I have to use at work, so I want my home keyboard to be the same.
Reasonable n-key rollover (say 5 keys min). I've had issues in some games with the 2-3 of 'normal' keyboards.
Either white/cream/silver, or with decently backlit keys. I struggle with most non-backlit black keyboards (lighter colours are OK) as I often game in lower light. I play games 'left handed', with my right hand is in the area of the number pad and cursor keys, and it's awkward when I need to use the rest of the keyboard.
From what I've read on this thread, it sounds like I'd prefer something like the Cherry Brown keys (or maybe black?).
Available in the UK.

Do you guys think I'll be able to find what I need, or should I give up on looking for a mechanical? Thanks.
I am very confident that you will find a mechanical keyboard that fits your needs and requirements. But I think you're right that you may need to consider switches like the Cherry MX Blacks. Or, perhaps even the Clears or the Reds. I mean, the Blacks might seem to be too much geared towards gaming and may not provide a good middle-ground between gaming and typing. However, I imagine that even the Blacks are superior for typing than Rubber Dome boards are.

But you definitely came to the right place. And y'know, I recommend also asking at http://geekhack.org. They are all about mechanical keyboards over there.
It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
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It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
  hide details  
Reply
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