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[Official] Mechanical Keyboard Guide - Page 259

post #2581 of 14564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktulu View Post
Does the keyboard have to inherently be PS2 or will attaching an adapter to USB produce the same results such less delay?
It came with a ps2 jack. Not sure about using adapters though. I tried using the usb-to-ps2 (came with my mouse) adapter on a usb keyboard. Didn't work, wasn't even turning on.

On a side note, holding A+S+C (diagonal left + walking, 1.6) locks up the keyboard and the machine produced some beeping sounds. No problem though, i was more than happy to change my walk key to "v". Stupid arctosa made me rebind it to "c" :\\ Other than that, everything seems to be working flawlessly.
Edited by fiskan - 3/23/10 at 3:03am
post #2582 of 14564
Quote:
Originally Posted by W4LNUT5 View Post
Just purchased a new Deck Legend - Ice (Tactile)

Can't wait 'till it gets here. I didn't really want Ice as I'd rather have the Fire or Toxic versions, but I also really wanted tactile switches. I decided functionality > looks

This should be the last keyboard I ever buy (but I have a sneaking suspicion I'm going to want a ten key-less or smaller after this. Something for my laptop while I'm in the lab)
Indeed! Form always follows function. But most keyboards today seem to be saying that function follows form. I'm only saying this because even though some of these keyboards have tons of features and aggressive styling, they're still just cheap rubber dome (membrane) keyboards inside.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktulu View Post
Does the keyboard have to inherently be PS2 or will attaching an adapter to USB produce the same results such less delay?
I believe that the keyboard has to have a PS/2 controller in it in order to work with a USB to PS/2 adapter (so that the keyboard can plug into a PS/2 port). I mean, I think the benefit gained depends on having a built-in controller, but I'm not sure.

For example: Filco's Majestouch keyboards have 2 flavors where some don't have full NKRO and some do: but yet both come with a USB to PS/2 adapter. But with the NKRO boards, the only way to experience the full NKRO is to use the USB to PS/2 adapter. But with the non NKRO boards, I think the only benefit of using the USB to PS/2 adapter might be just as simple as not occupying one of the USB ports so that it can be used for something else. I supposed another benefit might be for older systems where the BIOS can't be operated by a USB keyboard.

I suppose another benefit could be that using PS/2 instead of USB means no delays of any kind. Actually, something about that sounds familiar, so I'm going to say that it is definitely a benefit which I suppose is why many of these mechanical keyboards come with a USB to PS/2 adapter.


Edit: I just found out why that was familiar. This is an excerpt from Post #5 in this thread ("Features To Look For and Myths To Ignore"):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post

Polling Rates and Response Times
While it is very useful for mice, it's just about meaningless for keyboards. Let's assume for a minute that all switches have the 5ms debouncing time of Cherry MX switches (which is being very generous). Even if you had super human speed and reflexes, every single key would be delayed by at least that much. So really, any polling rate over 200Hz (at best) is absolutely useless, and nothing but market hype. It may even be a bit detrimental, because you'd be wasting CPU time polling the keyboard unneededly. And unlike USB keyboards, PS/2 boards aren't polled at all. They simply send the signal to the PC whenever they are ready to, which causes a hardware interrupt, forcing the CPU to register that keystroke.

PS/2 or USB?
PS/2 wins on three fronts: First, it supports full n-key rollover. Second, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based. And third, it is impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices. There are two types of USB transfer modes - the interrupt transfer mode (USB polls keyboard, when key is sensed the USB controller sends the interrupt to the CPU), and the isochronous transfer mode, which reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards made that use the latter, because special controllers would have to be used, thus making it cost prohibitive.

So if your keyboard supports both PS/2 and USB, and your PC has a PS/2 port, there's no reason not to use it.
So there it is! However, I want to say again that using the USB to PS/2 adapter does not give you full NKRO. It's just that if the board features full NKRO, then the only way to get the full NKRO is to use the USB to PS/2 adapter.
Edited by TwoCables - 3/23/10 at 4:51am
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post #2583 of 14564
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktulu View Post
Does the keyboard have to inherently be PS2 or will attaching an adapter to USB produce the same results such less delay?
It must be native PS/2. If you're talking about passive adapters, the keyboard must be native to both USB and PS/2 to use it.

If you mean active adapters, these things act like a computer on the keyboard side, store the keystrokes in memory, and then pretend to be a keyboard over USB and send them that way. And I mean this to the point where in device manager you don't see your own keyboard, you see this adapter. So these adapters always add a delay to keystrokes. It's not usually a noticeable delay, but still, it's extra work that has to be done.
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post #2584 of 14564
I have this Logitech Wireless USB Keyboard. I was thinking about upgrading to the ABS M1 or the iONE version for around the same price.
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post #2585 of 14564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktulu View Post
I have this Logitech Wireless USB Keyboard. I was thinking about upgrading to the ABS M1 or the iONE version for around the same price.
Do an Ebay on the Dell AT101w if you can. It's just a tad nicer for half the price.

Can'o'crylon later, and you'll have a nice black board.
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post #2586 of 14564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktulu View Post
I have this Logitech Wireless USB Keyboard. I was thinking about upgrading to the ABS M1 or the iONE version for around the same price.
Just a fair warning: these kinds of keyboards aren't anywhere near as quiet, but they should still provide a superior typing experience. However, these keyboards are really only loud when the keycaps are bottomed out against the body of the keyboard. I imagine that the Logitech LX710 remains fairly quiet even when typing fairly hard, so that's why I am saying all this.

Now, I'm curious: what's your primary use of the keyboard?


Edit: hehe Tator Tot, "Can'o'crylon later, and you'll have a nice black board." I don't know why, but it made me chuckle.

Ktulu: in light of Tator Tot's good recommendation, please check out the video at the bottom of this page: http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg...mystified.aspx.

I also highly recommend reading that whole article very carefully. Now that I have a mechanical keyboard, I certainly see why Manyak included it in the OP of this thread.

I also recommend checking out these videos here:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rch_type=&aq=f

This is a search for "Dell AT101W".

And here:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rch_type=&aq=f

This is a search for "ABS M1".
Edited by TwoCables - 3/23/10 at 11:48am
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post #2587 of 14564
I think I have the Dell AT101w in my closet, but it is SOOO dirty, could it be cleaned like new again?
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post #2588 of 14564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktulu View Post
I think I have the Dell AT101w in my closet, but it is SOOO dirty, could it be cleaned like new again?
Easily! But how clean it gets depends completely on you. All I can recommend is that you should be extremely detail-oriented when cleaning it. It'll be worth it.
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post #2589 of 14564
simple green is unearthly strong and contains no solvents so it won't warp or weaken any plastic. get a bucket and fill it with warm water and simple green. put the keycaps in and let them soak. you can wipe the face plate and casing down with a little simple green on a tack cloth.

if you really want to clean it thoroughly you will have to disassemble, desolder, clean, reassemble, solder and would take you probably 3-4 hours to do.

Christine
Edited by lmnop - 3/23/10 at 12:37pm
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post #2590 of 14564
Thanks guys. I don't know how to solder, but I will disassemble it as much as possible. I was also thinking of getting new keys and spray painting it like tot said.

Thanks for the advice.
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