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[Official] Mechanical Keyboard Guide - Page 264

post #2631 of 14566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post


Yeah the sound is just because you are bottoming out. The more you get used to it the less you'll bottom out, AND the more that both you and your wife get used to the sound the less you'll actually hear it - it becomes a kind of unconscious thing (kind of like if you live on a busy road, you eventually stop hearing the cars unless you pay attention to them).

The sound between boards always differs, even when they use the same switches. The different casings and keycaps all have different acoustics. But they will all make sound when you bottom out. Well, except for a few rubber-dampened switches that are no longer made. If the sound is really that bad for you maybe you should pick up a Deck with Cherry Clears or a Topre Realforce/HHKB.

The MX browns are similar to the Black Alps in your M1, the feel is only slightly different. If the feedback in the Alps doesn't throw off your game, then the feedback of the Browns won't either.

Right now it's virtually impossible to find a keyboard with Reds in the US. You have to know someone in Asia to get them (Japan, Korea, ...). But later this year the Miniguru is coming out, and it will have the option for you to use reds. And it's nice and small, so it would work very well if you wanted to use it just for gaming and have something else for typing (more space for you to move the mouse!). But what you could do - if you cared - is to get both MX Black and MX Brown switches, and then swap the springs inside of them. It's very tedious though.
Thanks for the quick response, how much different are cherry blacks vs the Black Alps in my ABS M1?

And ya I'm already eyeballing the smaller Filco keyboard styles, however it appears all of their browns and blacks are out of stock. I emailed them and they said they will have them in stock as of April.
post #2632 of 14566
Thread Starter 
Cherry Blacks require more force to press, and they don't have that tactile bump at all.
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post #2633 of 14566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skirr View Post
Thanks for the quick response, how much different are cherry blacks vs the Black Alps in my ABS M1?

And ya I'm already eyeballing the smaller Filco keyboard styles, however it appears all of their browns and blacks are out of stock. I emailed them and they said they will have them in stock as of April.
Deck Keyboards use black switches. They even have some new tactile versions which use cherry mx clear switches (a stiffer brown). They are more expensive than Filco Keyboards

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/

Their cheapest model is the "Legend - Fire". They are pretty much the only company that makes backlit mechanical keyboards. They also have a 30 day money back guarantee (not sure if you get stuck with a restocking fee or not)

Just something else to look at
    
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post #2634 of 14566
You've turned me into a keyboard monster. I think my friends are getting annoyed at me, I keep demanding they come over and type on my keyboard. Trying to convert as many people as possible. Strange how much money someone will dish out for a low quality keyboard if it has macro keys and useless media keys.
post #2635 of 14566
Quote:
Originally Posted by W4LNUT5 View Post
Deck Keyboards use black switches. They even have some new tactile versions which use cherry mx clear switches (a stiffer brown). They are more expensive than Filco Keyboards

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/

Their cheapest model is the "Legend - Fire". They are pretty much the only company that makes backlit mechanical keyboards. They also have a 30 day money back guarantee (not sure if you get stuck with a restocking fee or not)

Just something else to look at
I was looking into them when I bought my ABS M1, other than the fact they kind of want to shaft me on shipping to Alaska, I'm not sure I'd want to pay more just to have LED's in my keyboard. I don't need to see my keys to type. Are the Filco keyboards higher quality then the deck legend keyboards?

I also saw that they have drastically increased their prices since this thread was first made, and dropped a 10 year warranty down to 1 year which put me off a little.
post #2636 of 14566
iOne is releasing a new backlit mechanical keyboard in Q4 2010 with an MSRP of $150.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9258
post #2637 of 14566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
iOne is releasing a new backlit mechanical keyboard in Q4 2010 with an MSRP of $150.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9258
that looks great, although at $150 I'd get a Deck...
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post #2638 of 14566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skirr View Post
I was looking into them when I bought my ABS M1, other than the fact they kind of want to shaft me on shipping to Alaska, I'm not sure I'd want to pay more just to have LED's in my keyboard. I don't need to see my keys to type. Are the Filco keyboards higher quality then the deck legend keyboards?

I also saw that they have drastically increased their prices since this thread was first made, and dropped a 10 year warranty down to 1 year which put me off a little.


this force graph shows the XM/Fukkas in your ABS M1 actuate at 70g/1.5mm if this is the case I would keep them. it's just to bad the ABS M1 has a crappy controller in it.

see this thread. doesn't everybody in Alaska get shafted for shipping? I think I remember them having a 10 year warranty as well, but you only need 5 minutes to check to make sure all the LED and Cherry MX Black Linear or Cherry MX Clear switches respond because the probability of either failing is slim but not a guarantee, if you want that, you're going to have to learn to solder and desolder, disassemble and reassemble to ensure the Deck Legend (or Filco) outlives you. the 1 year warranty is better than Filco because you can modify the Deck Legend and when the warranty expires they will still service it for a fee of $60 which is steep but at least they give you the option. it's better to have than to not have. the Filco 87 layouts are nice.

Christine
Edited by lmnop - 3/25/10 at 2:38am
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post #2639 of 14566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
LOL twocables, you should bust out your lycosa right now

It's a whole different ballgame when you go back to what you used to use and see what it's like with some new perspective.
I think I need a few more days or perhaps a couple more weeks before I'm ready to do this. I don't know why, but it just doesn't feel like the timing is right yet - but it certainly feels like it's close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skirr View Post
I was researching keyboards and stumbled on your massive thread here, it was a huge wealth of information so I had to try out a mechanical switch keyboard vs my broken down G15. I remember my first keyboards and the keyboards at school and I always enjoyed that feel of the mechanical switch. But I wasn't sure I could justify buying a 150 dollar keyboard without trying one again, so I picked up an ABS M1. Long story short I'm in love with the way it feels when I'm gaming and typing.

I left the G15 plugged in (the space bar stopped working well) and I keep switching back and forth and the Logitech feels completely gross. Plus I never used the media keys or the LCD panel. AutoHotkey wins.

So thank you Manyak for reopening my eyes back to mechanical keyboards.

I do have a few questions however, my wife already is complaining about how much louder this ABS M1 is versus my G15. Is it because I'm bottoming out the keys, or is it the cheap switches in this ABS M1. Could I expect the same overall sound if I bought a nicer quality Filco with black switches, or maybe brown?

I game way more than I type, what are your guys opinions on the browns feedback for gaming? Does it get annoying?

And do any keyboard manufactures make keyboards with reds? I was curious to try some.


Yeah the sound is just because you are bottoming out. The more you get used to it the less you'll bottom out, AND the more that both you and your wife get used to the sound the less you'll actually hear it - it becomes a kind of unconscious thing (kind of like if you live on a busy road, you eventually stop hearing the cars unless you pay attention to them).

The sound between boards always differs, even when they use the same switches. The different casings and keycaps all have different acoustics. But they will all make sound when you bottom out. Well, except for a few rubber-dampened switches that are no longer made. If the sound is really that bad for you maybe you should pick up a Deck with Cherry Clears or a Topre Realforce/HHKB.

The MX browns are similar to the Black Alps in your M1, the feel is only slightly different. If the feedback in the Alps doesn't throw off your game, then the feedback of the Browns won't either.

Right now it's virtually impossible to find a keyboard with Reds in the US. You have to know someone in Asia to get them (Japan, Korea, ...). But later this year the Miniguru is coming out, and it will have the option for you to use reds. And it's nice and small, so it would work very well if you wanted to use it just for gaming and have something else for typing (more space for you to move the mouse!). But what you could do - if you cared - is to get both MX Black and MX Brown switches, and then swap the springs inside of them. It's very tedious though.
Skirr: I recommend practicing typing very gently every single day. I mean, literally just open Notepad or something and type whatever comes to your head while putting your best effort into not allowing any of the keycaps to touch the body of the keyboard. You will definitely have to type slower in order to achieve this, but what's nice is you will eventually be able to get back up to speed while retaining this quieter typing. But what's even nicer is that the typing experience will be even better than it is now. So not only will it eventually be quieter 100% of the time, but it'll be even more of a pleasure to use this keyboard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nijikon5 View Post
Manyak: Used a Keytronics KB this weekend at a LAN out of state ( had a rig provided for me ). Brought my Kinzu / 7G but the rig didnt have a p/s2 slot and I didn't bring my p/s2 to USB converter. I also used G15 for sometime too.. Man these rubber dome KBs just feel like such piles of mush compared to mechanical KBs. I don't understand how anyone can justify spending anymore than 10 dollars for a non-mechanical. I was demo'ing KBs at Frys today and all of them felt like mushy crap ( Saitek, G15, Lycosa ect ect ).
lol, doesn't it suck?

I mean, on one hand, you now use one of the top 1% of keyboards in the world.

On the other hand, it's suddenly become absolutely terrible to use anything else.
lol I am glad to be able to say that I know exactly how you feel. It's so clear to me now that the reasons why people can justify spending that kind of money on those keyboards (like the $80 Lycosa) are the following:
  • Ignorance - It seems that this is mostly caused by the fact that when a person goes shopping for keyboards, all they see are rubber dome switch keyboards.
  • Appearance - I've noticed that most people are far more interested in keyboards that have a very beautiful appearance. Unfortunately, most mechanical keyboards don't have the look that most people seem to want (or, the look that they're told to want). The companies seem to take advantage of the ignorance and make people feel that the cost is justified because they now have the best-looking keyboard at all the LAN parties they go to.
  • Hype - When a person is shopping for a new keyboard, the only things that they're told are important are the features and appearance (and of course, some keyboards have a multitude of features) - and sometimes the feel of the keycaps like with the Lycosa. These companies put so much emphasis on the features and appearance that it causes people to think that those are the only things that matter when shopping for a new keyboard. Worse yet, the people who just want a plain "boring" keyboard will just buy a cheap $5 to $10 and be done with it when they would actually be much happier with a mechanical keyboard. But I think that even those people who think they prefer the most awesome-looking keyboard would be a billion times happier with a mechanical keyboard as long as they gave it an honest shot.
  • Cost - Unfortunately, if companies like Logitech were to begin offering the G15 (or the G19) with Cherry MX switches without changing the features, then the board would likely cost at least twice as much as they cost now and therefore Logitech probably wouldn't be able to make nearly as much profit (which they probably need in order to cover their overhead for the things that have nothing to do with the board itself). I mean, the G15 is currently $89.99 shipped from Newegg and $99.99 from Best Buy, and I bet that it easily costs Logitech less than half that to manufacturer one. So this category can also be called "Lack of availability of mechanical keyboards due to the manufacturing cost and eventual selling price".
  • Negative connotation with the word "mechanical" - Unfortunately, I have noticed that some of the first things that people think of when they see the word "mechanical" are: "old", "out-dated", "noisy", "clunky", and "ugly". This is partly due to how the popular keyboard manufacturers have made people think that the rubber dome is superior because it's soft and usually very quiet. But it's also due to how all of the modern popular (or "best") keyboards have the rubber dome switch. So, when they see the word "mechanical", they think that it's quite inferior.
Almost all of these reasons are exactly why I never went with a mechanical keyboard and instead decided to buy the Lycosa. I even felt that the cost was justified because of the Lycosa's features. But another reason is that I didn't know that there was another switch type. I honestly never gave it much thought. I basically just believed that you had keyboards with the rubber dome (quiet keyboards), and keyboards without a rubber dome (louder, cheaper, and generally uglier).

Therefore, when I first learned about mechanical keyboards, I thought that these were the louder, and uglier keyboards that I've been avoiding all these years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skirr View Post
Thanks for the quick response, how much different are cherry blacks vs the Black Alps in my ABS M1?

And ya I'm already eyeballing the smaller Filco keyboard styles, however it appears all of their browns and blacks are out of stock. I emailed them and they said they will have them in stock as of April.
Cherry Blacks require more force to press, and they don't have that tactile bump at all.
Skirr: another way to put it is this: the feeling of a Linear switch is smooth. I mean, it's basically just a spring with no bump of resistance at the beginning of the keystroke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skirr View Post
You've turned me into a keyboard monster. I think my friends are getting annoyed at me, I keep demanding they come over and type on my keyboard. Trying to convert as many people as possible. Strange how much money someone will dish out for a low quality keyboard if it has macro keys and useless media keys.
I bet that if you showed them my list above that it will get them quite interested. But they should also know that I upgraded from the Lycosa to the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO with a bit of hesitation. I mean, while I was pretty much 100% convinced that I was going to love it (and I do), I was also scared that I would hate it at the same time because it doesn't have any features. But I hate saying that this keyboard doesn't have any features (like backlighting, media keys, USB ports, etc.) I mean, thanks to the build quality and the feel of the mechanical switches, this keyboard crushes the Lycosa and makes it feel like a cheap, extremely-overpriced toy. It also feels like the Filco Majestouch has way better features than the Lycosa.

In other words: I want to indirectly help convert them. Or, I'd rather say that I want to help wake them up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skirr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by W4LNUT5 View Post
Deck Keyboards use black switches. They even have some new tactile versions which use cherry mx clear switches (a stiffer brown). They are more expensive than Filco Keyboards

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/

Their cheapest model is the "Legend - Fire". They are pretty much the only company that makes backlit mechanical keyboards. They also have a 30 day money back guarantee (not sure if you get stuck with a restocking fee or not)

Just something else to look at
I was looking into them when I bought my ABS M1, other than the fact they kind of want to shaft me on shipping to Alaska, I'm not sure I'd want to pay more just to have LED's in my keyboard. I don't need to see my keys to type. Are the Filco keyboards higher quality then the deck legend keyboards?
I've seen others post in this thread who have both keyboards, and they've said that the build quality of the Deck boards is superior to the Majestouch boards. But when looking at keyboards of this caliber, the build quality is about the least important thing since they're fairly similar. Instead, I want to shift the focus from the build quality to the fact that the Deck keyboards use flat keys while the keyboards like the ABS M1 and the Filco Majestouch boards use sculpted keys:

Flat (Deck Legend):



Sculpted (white "Otaku" Filco Majestouch, same as the black ones):



But then there are different sculpted styles such as this Unicomp Customizer 104 (which is basically the best remake of the famous IBM Model M):



So when comparing mechanical keyboards that all have a very high build quality, the importance can be shifted to the features and design (and even the board's appearance). But of course, I am not trying to say that the switch isn't important. I think that the switch type is probably the most important thing to consider. I mean, I think that the switch type is basically the first thing to decide upon, and then the shopping can begin after that.

Anyway, I think that you basically made an excellent decision to go with the ABS M1. From what I can tell, it seems to be exactly the same as a Filco Majestouch, but with different switches. Speaking of which: is the ABS M1 fairly heavy? I mean, does it feel like it's incredibly solid? I'm actually kind of curious now!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skirr View Post
I also saw that they have drastically increased their prices since this thread was first made, and dropped a 10 year warranty down to 1 year which put me off a little.
I blame the economy.
Edited by TwoCables - 3/25/10 at 8:36am
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post #2640 of 14566
sculpted layouts have a null advantage over a flat layout. they act as a guide for your fingers like the nubs or nibs on your F and J keys. is the Deck Legend a typing keyboard? no. one could argue having a flat layout has an advantage because your fingers are not constantly climbing and dropping. lots of keyboards have flat layouts.

Christine
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