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[Official] Mechanical Keyboard Guide - Page 522

post #5211 of 14564
By the way, I'm curious as to what you mean by your movements not registering. Is it that it's hard to press, or the keyboard doesn't register key presses. Because if it doesn't register key presses, then why is it easy to type? If it doesn't register movement while gaming, wouldn't it not be able to register what keys you press, therefore making it harder to type?
post #5212 of 14564
hm why is it when i type with the DAS that when i hit delete sometimes it deletes the WHOLE word or the whole block of letters like it'll delete "sadfsdf" and not just one letter at a time say the "f" in sadfsdf?
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post #5213 of 14564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Mudkipz View Post
By the way, I'm curious as to what you mean by your movements not registering. Is it that it's hard to press, or the keyboard doesn't register key presses. Because if it doesn't register key presses, then why is it easy to type? If it doesn't register movement while gaming, wouldn't it not be able to register what keys you press, therefore making it harder to type?
From the OP of this topic:

Quote:
Cherry MX Blue switches are one of the best switches for typing. The tactile bump can easily be felt, and the resistance is about average.

Although many people find them just fine for gaming, some don't like the fact that the release point is above the actuation point. This can cause some trouble with double-tapping if you don't normally release the key completely.
Some people don't like what I've bolded. It doesn't bug everyone but some people do not care for it.
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post #5214 of 14564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Mudkipz View Post
By the way, I'm curious as to what you mean by your movements not registering. Is it that it's hard to press, or the keyboard doesn't register key presses. Because if it doesn't register key presses, then why is it easy to type? If it doesn't register movement while gaming, wouldn't it not be able to register what keys you press, therefore making it harder to type?
With blue switches you have to lift the key all the way up before you can press it down again. With typing, most people do this anyways. With gaming, lots of people don't. Usually it would be if you were stopping moving, and would suddenly start again because of something you see, or something of that matter. Really anything where you're switching back and forth quickly could have problems, like if you are jumping a bunch real quick. I also see "double tapping" mentioned a lot, but really I don't see that too often in games.
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post #5215 of 14564
I apologize for this big post, but I can't resist providing my input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crt4life View Post
Man, I've been having a hell of ahard time trying to decide which type of mechanical keybaord is right for me.

Right now i use a budget logitech keyboard with rubber membrane, so im sure any type of mech keyboard will be a step up.

My main use will be for gaming(fps in particular) and generally people will be saying cherry mx blacks switches are best for it, but i really think i would enjoy using a tactile keyboard(bucking spring or blue key)...but in reality i have no idea how any feel, and no legit stores anywhere close to try some out.

I would really like to hear some more opinions from people on gaming experinces with bucking spring and cherry blue.

Or should i jsut stick with majority are saying that black is best for gaming?...or maybe a balance of both sides with brown...ughh i cant decide!
Before I say anything, it's actually Buckling Springs because the spring buckles under the pressure of the keypress.

Anyway, the best thing might be to do as much research on the different switch types as you can and then pick the one that your gut instinct tells you that you would like the most.

So I recommend studying the 10-page OP of this thread some more and also using YouTube to find various videos of people typing on their mechanical keyboards. I think that the more videos you watch, the closer you will get to confidently choosing a switch type (and perhaps a keyboard too).

But generally speaking, the Cherry MX Blacks are preferred by "professional", or "competitive" gamers who take it very, very seriously - they're the ones who go to great lengths to make sure that everything is "perfect". But for the rest of the world, it is very possible to consider yourself a "gamer" and still have a very strong preference for the Cherry MX Blues, Browns, the Buckling Springs, capacitive switches, or any of the Alps or Alps Copies. We even actually have a few people here on Overclock.net who very strongly prefer the Cherry MX Blues for gaming.

So have respect for all of the recommendations, but the final decision is yours. After all, you're the one who's going to be using the keyboard!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Mudkipz View Post
So is linear good? I watched a Youtube video on a person typing on a Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional 2, where he said that the keyboard was almost 100% linear, and he loved the typing experience. Black switches, however, offer the most linear experience, but a lot of people said that they are horrible to type on.


Blues aren't 100% linear, however, yet many other people say that they offer the best typing experience.

So now, I'm confused over whether blue's, black's, or brown's offer the best typing experience...or is it that the HHKB Pro 2 uses godlike Topre Capacitive Switches, which are better than browns, blues, and black's?
The Topre Capacitive Switches have less resistance than the Cherry MX Blacks (which is why the Cherry MX Reds are called "the poor man's Topre Capacitive Switch", or something to that effect). You see, the reason why the Cherry MX Blacks are considered to be the "worst" mechanical switch for typing is because they have about the stiffest resistance: they require about the most force to press down.

So the reason why the Cherry MX Blacks are preferred by many gamers (especially competitive, professional gamers) is because this "heavier" spring makes it harder to end up with accidental keypresses during very intense gaming moments where the gamer is almost in a state of panic. Plus, the reset point and actuation point are nearly identical which is said to be the best for extremely fast double-tapping.

However, this doesn't mean that the Cherry MX Blacks are the only choice for gaming; it's still very possible to prefer the Cherry MX Blues, Browns, Buckling Springs, Capacitive, Alps, Alps Copies and even rubber domes.

So ultimately, the best switch type depends on you. But it's still best to listen to recommendations in addition to any research you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post
I can't imagine how linear keys could be considered "bad" for typing. There's absolutely nothing bad about typing on linear keys.

Typing on tactile keys is awesome, and a lot more enjoyable then linear. However, typing on linear keys is "normal" as opposed to "bad". Some of you guys make it sound like typing on linear is worse then a rubber dome .
It's all relative: I mean, it's that in comparison to other switch types, the Cherry MX Blacks are the "worst" of the bunch for typing. Unfortunately, most of the people who say that the Cherry MX Blacks are the worst for typing assume that everyone understands that they're just comparing it to other mechanical switch types. But they're also assuming that everyone understands that even the Cherry MX Blacks can be strongly preferred by some for typing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Mudkipz View Post
How would you comment on this video?

YouTube- Das Keyboard Professional S Silent Model Review

He even goes so far as to say that paying $100 for the keyboard wasn't worth it vs. his rubber dome...probably doesn't know what he's talking about. The model he is using has brown switches.
I think I'll make a list of things he said and what they actually mean:
  1. In the first 5-6 seconds of the video, he says that he's only had the keyboard for "about a day". (I'm rolling my eyes at him for not giving the keyboard a chance)
  2. "You feel plastic bottoming out" means "I don't know what I'm talking about"
  3. "so I guess that's where the tactile feeling comes from" means "I don't know what I'm talking about. I should have done some research before ordering this keyboard"
  4. "these are actually less tactile, less clicky than the Cherry MX Blues or the Buckling Springs" means "I don't know what I'm talking about. I should have said that the Cherry MX Browns are Tactile, but non-clicky among other things"
  5. "You can definitely feel the difference between [the Cherry MX Browns] and membrane keyboards" means "I don't know what I'm talking about: when I said membrane keyboards, I meant to say rubber dome keyboards. In other words, I really don't know what I'm talking about even though I spent this large sum of money on a keyboard"
  6. "The USB hub on the side has proven kinda useless to me because I don't wanna cut down my transfer speeds when I already have a hub [on the top of my CM 690 II]" means "I should have done some research before buying this keyboard; I bought this keyboard blindly and now I'm regretting it. I could have found a better keyboard if I had just taken the time to do some research before making a purchase."
  7. He states that because this keyboard has full NKRO, it "quite easily" passes that test where you hold down both Shift keys while simultaneously typing "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog". But this isn't due to having full NKRO. For a quick example, the Logitech G11 was shown to pass that test for each and every G11 owner. Does that mean it has full NKRO? Nope. But what does it mean when a keyboard passes that test? Heh. Nothing. "Hey I can type 'the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog' while simultaneously holding down both Shift keys! Isn't that awesome?"
  8. He doesn't understand why somebody would want a keyboard that has blank keys even though they never need to look at their keyboard while using it. He doesn't think he should have to pay more for "less keys".
  9. His very last words of the video are, "and again this is a Das keyboard Professional S model Silent... uh, Cherry MX Blues."



Yeah, this guy definitely doesn't have a clue as to what he's talking about. In fact, after listening to him talk, I get the impression that he's mentally slow or something. But that wouldn't surprise me seeing as how he went and ordered this keyboard while not having a clue about what he was getting into. I think one of the biggest things that sticks out to me is that he gets this keyboard and then complains that the USB hub is useless to him. Sigh... "If the USB hub is useless to you, then you shouldn't have ordered this keyboard!"

That is all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
Instead of quoting all the previous posts about what switch is good for gaming and such, I'll just post here.

All the switches I've used work the same in the end for me when gaming. I've used blues, blacks, browns and topre. They all feel different but it doesn't take me long to adjust to the different switch. The best switch would be the one that works best for you, not the one that all the competitive players say is better.
Exactly. I think Manyak would agree that nobody can tell somebody else exactly which switch type to go with. The best we can do is educate those who are asking as best as we can concerning each switch type so that they are better equipped to make their decision instead of just blindly buying a keyboard like SJChango99 did in that so-called review of his Das Model S Professional Silent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post
This is true. The most important thing will always be what works best for you.



However, when we are making recommendations for someone who gaming is important for, I do think it is VERY important to not recommend Cherry's blue switches at all. While lots of people may have no problem gaming on the blues, those of us that do, it's a disaster. The keyboard just isn't even usable. I'm not saying the blue's are just worse for me, I'm saying I literally can not play with them. You try to do movements and half of them don't register, it just does not work at all.

Blues are probably the best (blind choice) option for someone that is going to type a ton, assuming they don't mind breaking out a different keyboard when it comes time to do some gaming if they need to.
But due to the fact that there are people who have a strong preference for gaming on the Cherry MX Blues and also due to the fact that there are those who have no problem gaming on them, we still need to tell the people who are asking that they need to consider all of the switch types and then make their decision on the one that they feel they would like the most.

I mean, don't get me wrong: I know that in comparison to most of the other switch types, the Cherry MX Blues are the "worst" for gaming and the "best" for typing. But there are still people who have a strong preference for them and so therefore I don't want to tell somebody to avoid the Cherry MX Blues just because they mainly use their computer for gaming. I mean, what if they end up being one of those people who prefer the MX Blues, y'know?
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post #5216 of 14564
^ the wall of mechanical keyboard
post #5217 of 14564
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post
But due to the fact that there are people who have a strong preference for gaming on the Cherry MX Blues and also due to the fact that there are those who have no problem gaming on them, we still need to tell the people who are asking that they need to consider all of the switch types and then make their decision on the one that they feel they would like the most.

I mean, don't get me wrong: I know that in comparison to most of the other switch types, the Cherry MX Blues are the "worst" for gaming and the "best" for typing. But there are still people who have a strong preference for them and so therefore I don't want to tell somebody to avoid the Cherry MX Blues just because they mainly use their computer for gaming. I mean, what if they end up being one of those people who prefer the MX Blues, y'know?
My point is that even if you like blues better anyways, it's unlikely you'll be specifically disappointed with browns or blacks, at least for gaming. It's very possible that you will be disappointed with the blues though. This makes blacks and browns a "safer" choice, especially when it's for someone who is going to take a blind step and just order something off the internet.
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post #5218 of 14564
So if cherry blues are great for typing (love or hate relationship with gaming) and cherry blacks for gaming, then it's safe to say browns are a perfect balance between the two!
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post #5219 of 14564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post
With blue switches you have to lift the key all the way up before you can press it down again. With typing, most people do this anyways. With gaming, lots of people don't. Usually it would be if you were stopping moving, and would suddenly start again because of something you see, or something of that matter. Really anything where you're switching back and forth quickly could have problems, like if you are jumping a bunch real quick. I also see "double tapping" mentioned a lot, but really I don't see that too often in games.
Well currently, I am using my G15, and I'm pretty sure I lift the key all the way up before I press down on it again.

Of course, that's not saying much because I'm not using a mechanical keyboard, haha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawcheehung View Post
So if cherry blues are great for typing (love or hate relationship with gaming) and cherry blacks for gaming, then it's safe to say browns are a perfect balance between the two!
Yes, I've realized that, but the thing is...I really like the clickity clack of a keyboard with blue switches. It's like music to my ears.
post #5220 of 14564
Quote:
Originally Posted by crt4life View Post
Thanks for all the help, and glad to see such a big, dedicated community to a niche technology like mechanical keyboards.

I have nearly decided on a Das Professional model S Silent, or perhaps a cherry brown alternative.

While i was browsing around, I've run into a multiple pictures of the Das model S that has basic media keys(volume control, play, pause, etc) along side with most of the function keys, but the display picture of it on the Das main site doesn't have those keys. Can anyone who recently bought a Das from the main site or not, confirm if it will have the media keys?(which i would prefer since I've become very accustomed to them on my current keyboard

And a side question, how much better are cherry blacks for typing compared to your typical rubber membrane board?
Any Model S ordered from Das' website will have the two Windows keys (no media keys). But never fear: there is software (that doesn't even have to run in the background) that can allow you to customize your keyboard any way you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Mudkipz View Post
By the way, I'm curious as to what you mean by your movements not registering. Is it that it's hard to press, or the keyboard doesn't register key presses. Because if it doesn't register key presses, then why is it easy to type? If it doesn't register movement while gaming, wouldn't it not be able to register what keys you press, therefore making it harder to type?
My keyboard has the Cherry MX Blues, so I'll try to describe this:

When I slowly and very-carefully press a key down just to point where it clicks and then hold it there and then ever-so-slightly let the key back up, I can control when it actuates (and gives me a constant stream of characters), or when it isn't actuating. As I'm pressing the key down, the point where it begins to actuate is the moment where it clicks. As I slowly and carefully let the key back up, the point where it stops actuating is physically higher (vertically speaking) than the point where it actuated.

But now as I slowly and carefully release the key to the point where it stops and then hold it there, I can begin pressing it back down again and get it to start actuating again! But here's the kicker: it's underneath the point where it clicks and it's also underneath the tactile bump (again, vertically speaking). So I can hold the key down just enough to where it's just barely past the click and the tactile bump and then continue letting it go up and down to get the key to actuate and then to stop it without ever feeling the tactile bump or hearing the click. The area of the vertical travel that I am describing is perfectly linear.

So for extremely competitive or professional gaming, this is no good because those two points of actuation and release are at different points in the vertical travel. Plus, the best way to get a confident double-tap is to let the key come all the way back up, above the tactile bump and the point where it clicks (that is, unless you spend days upon days practicing a technique where you always hold the key down underneath the bump and click, but that would be difficult and extremely inconvenient and impractical).

But for casual gamers like me, it doesn't matter. In fact, I love the way the Cherry MX Blues work for me for gaming: I get a satisfying click and a satisfying tactile response. But I'm not competitive, nor do I take gaming seriously. I just play without caring about technique or anything (although I do position my keyboard and mouse so that it's ergonomic).

But for competitive typing, the Cherry MX Blues are probably about the best. After all, every single keystroke is a single keystroke, and each keystroke always allows the key to come all the way back up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by godofdeath View Post
hm why is it when i type with the DAS that when i hit delete sometimes it deletes the WHOLE word or the whole block of letters like it'll delete "sadfsdf" and not just one letter at a time say the "f" in sadfsdf?
What software does this happen in? Or does it happen everywhere, including Notepad?
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