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[Official] Mechanical Keyboard Guide - Page 59

post #581 of 14551
I have had my G11 for about 4 years and have been typing heavily on it every day and she is still as good as the day i got it,but i got a g15(second model) and its a nice keyboard the keys feel flimsy and boring to type on.
Iv been looking around for a decent mechanical board to buy. (im kicking myself for throwing out my old IBM model M )
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post #582 of 14551
Quote:
Originally Posted by killerxx7 View Post
I have had my G11 for about 4 years and have been typing heavily on it every day and she is still as good as the day i got it,but i got a g15(second model) and its a nice keyboard the keys feel flimsy and boring to type on.
Iv been looking around for a decent mechanical board to buy. (im kicking myself for throwing out my old IBM model M )
I'm enjoying the model M I found, I've come to the conclusion I don't like playing WoW with it but give me an FPS and I'm in love. It probably doesn't help that I don't have a wrist rest for when I use the Model M so my wood desk kills my writs
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post #583 of 14551
http://www.roccat.org/Products/Gamin...s/ROCCAT-Valo/ Does this keyboard use mechanical keys?

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/ke.../4740&cl=us,en And this, does it use them?

Quote:
(...)

For those of you who are curious with what I think of other keyboards in terms of typing quality, here's a small list of how I rank them. 100 is the best, 0 is the worst.

100 -
95 - IBM Model M
90 -
85 - IBM Thinkpad keyboard
80 - Logitech DiNovo keyboards (not the Mini though, for obvious reasons)
75 - Logitech G15
70 - Microsoft Sidewinder X6
65 - Logitech Illuminated (the space row's hump costs it a bit)
60 -
55 -
50 - Filco Majestouch
45 -
40 - Logitech Classic Keyboard ($13 and actually has decent feedback; cheap construction means the keys are too stiff to press however)
35 - Razer Lycosa (rubber coating is nice but the keys are too loose)
30 -
25 -
20 - Just about any other keyboard on the market
15 -
10 - Steelseries 7G
5 -
0 -
Source: http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/sh....php?t=2385473

Please, see and comment.
post #584 of 14551
Quote:
Originally Posted by lb_felipe View Post
Neither use mechanical keys.
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post #585 of 14551
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by urocyon View Post
Stumbled onto this thread from a google tangent and having read through the whole thing I signed up here just so I could add a few random, disjointed comments.

One question which came up a lot is why mechanical is better. Sheer comfort has already been covered extensively enough. Accuracy has been hinted at--many cheaper keyboards are rather inconsistent in their response depending on if you hit the keys perfectly centered or not, in addition to the lack of good feedback as to whether a key has registered. Another reason which I haven't seen mentioned yet is the long term effects on your hands; after some thirty odd years of keyboard use I can definitely say that the standard membrane keyboards do strain my wrists after a while. In fact, it was my hunt for a new keyboard which lead me here.

Someone along the way commented that the old IBM PC/AT keyboards lack the positioning nubs for touch-typing. Many older keyboards had F and J keys which were more concave than the rest, which served the same function and which I found much more comfortable. I hated the nubs when they first started appearing and it took a few years to finally get used to having my fingertips stabbed by the various incarnations, from dots in the middle of the key to the bar-shaped ones at the bottom.

Someone else asked for a programmable mechanical keyboard. Just as the Model M is now made and sold by Unicomp, the old Northgate OmniKeys are now made by Creative Vision. They're based on ALPS switches, white if I remember right, and for programmable keys you want the Avant Stellar.

Speculation was made regarding the keyboards made by Deck's parent company, TG3. I spoke with Brian Carpenter of TG3 and got a few answers already. The mechanical switches they use are Cherry MX black. There's a rubber membrane which helps spillproof them, and which also lends a slight tactile feel. Sorry, no brown or blue switches.

Right now I'm trying out a Deck 87-key. One of the first things I noticed was that Deck uses PCB-mount keyswitches, and there's absolutely nothing protecting the PCB but the keycaps. Any liquid or metal (such as paperclips) accidentally getting between the keys means an almost certain short circuit. This seems like a serious design flaw, since it would take little to include even slight shielding, either molded in as part of the case or as a rubber sheet. I also can't stand the linear keys for typing, so it's going to be returned.

I have a HHKB Lite kicking around too. Despite being membrane, it seems to be built to better tolerances than most, mostlymitigating the problems of hitting keys off-center. Not the best feel, not quite the worst either.

It almost seems like the ideal setup might be a linear response 10-key specifically for gaming in place of the wasd mapping, since it's mainly the directionals which benefit from that type of keyswitch. Something like one of the X-Keys could work pretty well for that, negating the need for one full keyboard for gaming and another for typing.
I can tell you one thing for absolute certain - a good mechanical board will remove some strain off your wrist, so you're on the right track. My girlfriend had the same wrist pains she'd get whenever she used a computer. It lasted for several months before she listened to me and tried out a board with Cherry MX Browns. A week later they were completely gone.

Also, the speculation you were seeing about Deck's keyboards were from when they announced that they were going to release a tactile board this summer but wouldn't say with which switches. They used Cherry Whites/Clears (however you want to call them), which are basically just Cherry Browns with a stiffer spring.

I agree about the extra small mechanical pad for gaming. I was looking at X-Keys as well, but they're pretty expensive. Their 20 key model is too small and won't give you many controls around your fingers, and the pad one step up costs $170 - way more than another whole keyboard costs. So for gaming it's not really worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by killerxx7 View Post
I have had my G11 for about 4 years and have been typing heavily on it every day and she is still as good as the day i got it,but i got a g15(second model) and its a nice keyboard the keys feel flimsy and boring to type on.
Iv been looking around for a decent mechanical board to buy. (im kicking myself for throwing out my old IBM model M )

If you don't care how old it is, look at the list at the end of the OP, there are a bunch of keyboards you can find on ebay for cheap there!
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post #586 of 14551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
I can tell you one thing for absolute certain - a good mechanical board will remove some strain off your wrist
Oh I know, I have a stack of Model Ms I've collected over the years. I'm currently in need of something in USB, and have been exploring various niceties such as ergo, compact, backlit, programmable, swappable ctrl/capslock, and so forth. I may just wind up getting a ps/2-to-usb adapter for my crusty old IBM boards and be done with it though.

Quote:
Also, the speculation you were seeing about Deck's keyboards
Actually, my comment was about the TG3 keyboards, not Deck.

Quote:
I agree about the extra small mechanical pad for gaming. I was looking at X-Keys as well, but they're pretty expensive.
True, they are a bit spendy. A Filco tenkey would be cheaper and is also available in linear, I just personally liked the flexibility of the X-Keys for use outside of gaming as well, since they're fully programmable; that way you could configure it to conform to wasd controls when gaming instead of remapping all your games, then use it as a tenkey or media controller or whatever else when not gaming. If I don't wind up getting an Avant Steller, I'll probably at least get an X-Keys Stick just for the macroable keyset.

Currently I'm rather attracted to the Filco tenkeyless. Does anyone know if their (non-blank) keycaps are insert molded, making them suitable for backlit mods?
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post #587 of 14551
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by urocyon View Post
Oh I know, I have a stack of Model Ms I've collected over the years. I'm currently in need of something in USB, and have been exploring various niceties such as ergo, compact, backlit, programmable, swappable ctrl/capslock, and so forth. I may just wind up getting a ps/2-to-usb adapter for my crusty old IBM boards and be done with it though.



Actually, my comment was about the TG3 keyboards, not Deck.



True, they are a bit spendy. A Filco tenkey would be cheaper and is also available in linear, I just personally liked the flexibility of the X-Keys for use outside of gaming as well, since they're fully programmable; that way you could configure it to conform to wasd controls when gaming instead of remapping all your games, then use it as a tenkey or media controller or whatever else when not gaming. If I don't wind up getting an Avant Steller, I'll probably at least get an X-Keys Stick just for the macroable keyset.

Currently I'm rather attracted to the Filco tenkeyless. Does anyone know if their (non-blank) keycaps are insert molded, making them suitable for backlit mods?
Nope, they are silk screened. And even if they were two-shot molded, the keycap stem that hooks onto the switch is almost always done with the lettering mold, not the surrounding. So if you punch the letter out, the stem will come out with it. You'd have to punch out the lettering, cut it off, and then put the key back together - 104 times. Not very fun.

You can buy ready made keys for backlighting from signature plastics and some other places, but they are pretty expensive (Filco's use DCS style keys where each row is a different height and angle, in case you do call them up to ask for a pricing).

Also - those USB adapters aren't always the greatest. A lot of them have problems with keys being held down. So if you use one with a Model M, you'll need something separate for gaming almost for sure.

And - if you want some real flexibility with programming a keyboard, get Autohotkey. You can program absolutely any key or combination of keys to do anything you want. Much cheaper than using an X-keys. What I do is use the right Ctrl, Alt, and Windows keys as modifiers for macros and program launching (hell, you have two of each, why not make the ones you don't need useful?). Works very well
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post #588 of 14551
Woooo! I just ordered my Cherry G80-3000LSCRC-2!

I can't wait to see how these Cherry MX Blue's feel. I used to have a SteelSeries Ikari 7g, but typing on that thing actually made my hands tired because of the black switches. Anyway, I was reading on some other forums and apparently this is like the greatest keyboard on earth. I could only find two sites that had them in stock and one of them had one in stock but it was in Chinese, so I didn't end up getting it, but I got one from another site and it's on its way. I will take pics when I get it, hopefully it will be in good condition.
post #589 of 14551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomagenesis View Post
Woooo! I just ordered my Cherry G80-3000LSCRC-2!

I can't wait to see how these Cherry MX Blue's feel. I used to have a SteelSeries Ikari 7g, but typing on that thing actually made my hands tired because of the black switches. Anyway, I was reading on some other forums and apparently this is like the greatest keyboard on earth. I could only find two sites that had them in stock and one of them had one in stock but it was in Chinese, so I didn't end up getting it, but I got one from another site and it's on its way. I will take pics when I get it, hopefully it will be in good condition.
The blue switches are nice, although not my favorite switch.

However, they are a nice switch to start with, and are pleasant to type with. I think you managed to find the hardest to find keyboard with the Blue MX switches.

Be sure to report how you like it, or don't like it when you get it.
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post #590 of 14551
Could you send me a link to the one in Chinese? My wife might like it
 
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