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[Official] Mechanical Keyboard Guide - Page 709

post #7081 of 14566
EDIT: This is wrong, ignore.
Edited by ch_123 - 9/5/10 at 7:44am
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post #7082 of 14566
Quote:
Originally Posted by ch_123 View Post
Bear in mind that with the Blue switches, the actuation point stays in the same place, but the point at which it clicks changes. So the key un-registers at the same point that it originally registers, but you don't get any tactile feedback to go with it. In that regard, it is no worse a choice of gaming switch the Blacks are, it's slightly disorientating when you use it first because you expect the tactility to be in the same place.

In fact, as with White Alps, the point at which the Blue Cherry clicks and unclicks is above the point at which it actuates, which isn't good given that click switches are meant to click at the point when it actuates, not before it.
I'm testing it right now, and I'm finding that actuation occurs at the exact same time as the click. I am also finding that de-actuation is occurring above the point where it actuated. In other words, the release point is above the actuation point in the key travel (as the key is slowly allowed to come back up, it stops sending the key signal at a higher point than the actuation occurred at). This makes the Cherry MX Blues bad for double-tapping when the gamer isn't allowing the key to come all the way back up. But for people like me who just perform two hits in rapid succession with a full release of the key, it's perfectly fine.
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post #7083 of 14566
I don't have one to hand to test, but from Cherry themselves -



Where the pressure point is the place where it clicks, and the operating points being where it registers. Note the different locations of the 'bumps' representing where the magic white yoke on the slider does whatever it does to make the click noise.

I also have vague memories of the click point being seperate to the actuation point back when I used to have a Blue Cherry Filco. I'll test later with one of my Dolch keyboards.

Edited by ch_123 - 9/5/10 at 7:12am
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post #7084 of 14566
Quote:
Originally Posted by ch_123 View Post
I don't have one to hand to test, but from Cherry themselves -



Where the pressure point is the place where it clicks, and the operating points being where it registers. Note the different locations of the 'bumps' representing where the magic white yoke on the slider does whatever it does to make the click noise.

I also have vague memories of the click point being seperate to the actuation point back when I used to have a Blue Cherry Filco. I'll test later with one of my Dolch keyboards.
When I press a key as carefully and as slowly as I possibly can (even with two hands for more control), the click and the actuation point seem to be at the exact same place. I'm not saying that this means that the graph is wrong, but I'm just describing the way it seems.

However, the tactile bump is definitely felt before actuation occurs and also before the click occurs. In order of occurrence in the downward key stroke: it starts out feeling linear, then there's resistance (the tactile feedback), then there's a click along with simultaneous actuation, and then the rest of the key travel is linear again.

In other words, the "pressure point" in the graph is referring to the silent tactile feedback that occurs before the click is heard (which again is the exact moment of actuation); it's not referring to the click. I mean, now that I've tested it this carefully, I am 100% certain about it.
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post #7085 of 14566
Wait, reset point is the point at which the switch resets, I was thinking that it was referring to the un-click. I'm a retard.

In fact, I went off and opened up a Cherry switch, and it would seem that due to the way the thing works, it will reset at a slightly higher point than it would on the down press.

In fairness, isn't double tapping really a psychological crutch? The key will send multiple characters anway if you hold down. Guess it's a case of how fast you can mash the key compared with the typematic rate of the keyboard.
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post #7086 of 14566
Quote:
Originally Posted by ch_123 View Post
Wait, reset point is the point at which the switch resets, I was thinking that it was referring to the un-click. I'm a retard.

In fact, I went off and opened up a Cherry switch, and it would seem that due to the way the thing works, it will reset at a slightly higher point than it would on the down press.

In fairness, isn't double tapping really a psychological crutch? The key will send multiple characters anway if you hold down. Guess it's a case of how fast you can mash the key compared with the typematic rate of the keyboard.
Yes, except you need to hold the key for a certain time before it starts spamming the key. You can change this setting, but it would make writing annoying.
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post #7087 of 14566
Quote:
Originally Posted by ch_123 View Post
Wait, reset point is the point at which the switch resets, I was thinking that it was referring to the un-click.

In fact, I went off and opened up a Cherry switch, and it would seem that due to the way the thing works, it will reset at a slightly higher point than it would on the down press.

In fairness, isn't double tapping really a psychological crutch? The key will send multiple characters anway if you hold down. Guess it's a case of how fast you can mash the key compared with the typematic rate of the keyboard.
Double-tapping is referring to a gaming maneuver for things like dodging in Unreal Tournament 3. If a gamer has a polished/clean double-tapping technique where he/she does not allow the key to come all the way back up before the 2nd tap, then the Cherry MX Blues would piss that gamer off. This is because in order to properly double-tap with the Cherry MX Blues, the switch must be allowed all the way back up before the 2nd tap in order to ensure that both keystrokes go through. Otherwise, it may not reset prior to the 2nd finger motion of the double-tap technique which means the dodge isn't performed which also means the gamer either gets hit or dies.

But for casual gamers like me who have a sloppier double-tapping technique, we just quickly hit the key twice which means that the switch is allowed to come all the way back up before the 2nd key press. This means that it always resets in the middle of the double-tap which also means that the dodge maneuver is performed.

In other words: due to the reset point being higher than the point of actuation, the Cherry MX Blues would frustrate a professional gamer who has become used to a very refined, sophisticated/clean double-tapping technique. This is also why the Cherry MX Blacks are the best for gaming: the reset point and actuation point are practically at the exact same spot.

So double-tapping is not possible when just pressing and holding a key in order to let the repeat rate take over thereby giving you two keystrokes. All that does is cause you to move over which is significantly slower than the dodge maneuver. Imagine that in the time span of about 1 whole second you see that you're about to be shot. So in the blink of an eye you double-tap to dodge. This causes you to jump out of the way (to the side) and therefore you dodge the shot that the enemy has taken at you. But if you just press and hold a key, you simply move to the side which is too slow and therefore you get hit (and probably die too).

Therefore, due to the fact that the reset point of the Cherry MX Blues is higher than the actuation point, they are the worst mechanical switch for double tapping (at least when compared to other "good" mechanical switches).

Quote:
Originally Posted by thiru View Post
Yes, except you need to hold the key for a certain time before it starts spamming the key. You can change this setting, but it would make writing annoying.
I'm confused. I use (and prefer) the settings below, and I never have problems with typing. Actually, I get more problems with the default settings because I'm sometimes too fast. I sometimes wish that I could tweak the repeat delay so that it was just a hair shorter.


Edited by TwoCables - 9/5/10 at 7:55am
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post #7088 of 14566
Thread Starter 
The repeat rate doesn't apply in games, only key_up/key_down events.
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post #7089 of 14566
For the record, I never believed that the Repeat Rate applied to games.
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It's a computer!
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i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
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Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
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Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
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post #7090 of 14566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
The repeat rate doesn't apply in games, only key_up/key_down events.
Which is why I sometimes use auto clickers/typers.
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