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[OFFICIAL] Phenom II X4 9x5 OC Club - Page 558

post #5571 of 5692
I havent gotten anything yet, I still have the Athlon II.

I say virtually free because after I sell my chip, I'll have to add about $30-$35 to get the Phenom II 955. Im also selling a hard drive I dont need for that amount, so virtually no money is coming out of my pocket. Getting anything else more expensive will require cash out of my pocket.

If the FX-6300 was priced the same as the Phenom II, I would get one right away.

I agree with everyone else here when they say it is hardly worth the upgrade. If I could have a guaranteed 4GHz on my current cooling, I would get it right away. But anything under that is just too little difference compared to now.

Will continue to consider various options wink.gif
post #5572 of 5692
Quote:
I havent gotten anything yet, I still have the Athlon II.

I say virtually free because after I sell my chip, I'll have to add about $30-$35 to get the Phenom II 955. Im also selling a hard drive I dont need for that amount, so virtually no money is coming out of my pocket. Getting anything else more expensive will require cash out of my pocket.

If the FX-6300 was priced the same as the Phenom II, I would get one right away.

I agree with everyone else here when they say it is hardly worth the upgrade. If I could have a guaranteed 4GHz on my current cooling, I would get it right away. But anything under that is just too little difference compared to now.

Will continue to consider various options

lol, that's not really free. That doesn't really mean anything, you could work an extra couple hours at work and have the phenom for 'free' too. What money you make by selling parts doesn't really make a difference for anything, economically speaking. Technically, you could sell all those stuff (CPU, HDD) AND the motherboard if you went intel

FX is terrible for gaming/general usage. Unless you are using professional programming or video encoding, ie specialist programs, which you probably wouldn't be asking these questions and you would know it if you were, and your just gaming, then you'll want Intel (personally, I do video encoding and don't have much money, which is why I pick an 'inferior' AMD system over pentium because I'm using specialist programs). Phenom is better for gaming than FX.

You still haven't really described what games you play, and how you use your computer, and what resolution you play at, so you still haven't really explained the information we need to help you out.

But your Athlon x4 at 3.6ghz is a real gem, you really aren't going to get much better than that on an AM3 system, even with the significant amount of money you'd need to pay to get a minor increase in performance, and even a large amount of money spent wouldn't increase your power much more for gaming/general usage (a 4.2ghz 1090 would obviously be a huge jump up for video encoding or photoshop, but it sounds like all your doing is just gaming, at which $200 for just basically 700mhz of extra speed is entirely not worth it).

An overclocked Phenom x4 is going to have similar performance to a G2120, a sub-$100 processor new (with each having better performance in certain areas). An ivy bridge i3 would be a significant jump up in performance, although will cost about $30 more than a phenom new, so it's a bit out of the price range, but a sandy bridge i3 is in the similar price range and would be a decent upgrade (although im not sure if it'd be worth it over your athlon ii x4 3.6ghz).

The problem is that your sidegrading for what you do, your paying too much for a very minor upgrade, and the chip you already have is actually already quite good. Have you considered pushing your overclock even further on your athlon ii? If you are heat limited, buying a decent cooler would go a long way for you, you could maybe push that athlon more. Athlon ii's run quite cool because of their lack of L3 cache (although you should have a deneb, so maybe you can activate it and turn your athlon into a phenom?).

Anyways 4ghz is hardly guaranteed, the IMC of deneb sucks so it's entirely possible you can't do that, and they run quite hot.

And if anything, you should buy a 960t Zosma phenom if anything, that's the best chip for overclocking (better IMC than deneb phenoms like 9xx's, not to mention possible hexacore) OR a B97 (C3 revision OEM 955, it's just semi-locked like every non-black edition CPU, which you are already familiar with, just downclock CPU-NB/HT Link/RAM and raise FSB, which is the proper way to overclock AM3 anyways, overclocking via raised multi is worse for stability and disables features like CnQ and Powernow! which are awesome). B97's tend to sell really cheap, especially used, because most people just see Black Edition and pay out the ass for it, and many people don't know what a B97 is. B99 also (just an OEM 965 C3), but I don't really see B99's for the same low price as I see B97's. All B97s and B99's are C3 though.

Just a week ago I saw someone sell 10 B97's on Ebay for $65 each, which was a really good deal.
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post #5573 of 5692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Its been posted a million times but 1.55v is the max AMD specifies, and 1.6v is where most people say is really the 24/7 limit if you want to be a bit rash with it (1.55+ will probably degrade performance, but with downclocking features like coolnquiet/powernow!/C1E, your CPU isn't always running that, and the lifecycle of a CPU is quite long so 10 years to 5 years really isn't a big deal for an out of warranty chip that's outdated anyways).
Course no one really knows, I haven't heard anyone say "omg, i ran at 1.XX voltage for the last X years and now my CPU died because I ran it at too high a voltage for too long!" and the fact these sorts of problems manifest as very, very minor instabilities that dont get picked up for, for a long time, and when they do, its very minor and still dont get noticed for a long time, and take a while before you get actual issues which you may or may not even notice and by that time it may or may not be The Future.
Just my opinion. You can spend your money as you like. Definitely a Hyper 212+ for $14.99 is better than anything else, you'd have to get that arctic cooler for FREE to be a better deal than a Hyper 212+ at $14.99 FREE shipping (or less used/ebay/etc). Not even sure if that arctic cooler is worth it for free, it simply won't do the job you need it to do, it's like asking "Hey I can get DDR2 RAM for cheap, should I get it?". No, it doesn't work. And even the hyper 212+ might not be enough for the job, although it should be okay for the most part and might mean you just can't lose 100mhz or something, maybe. Really depends on your chip.

Ive got a Corsair H70 with noctua NF-F12 fans and with the cpu at 4.2ghz it only peaks out at around 60 degree's. 1 question thou what is the difference between offset voltage and plain core voltage?? Im using a crosshair IV formula motherboard.
 
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post #5574 of 5692
Thanks for the input Belial.

First to quickly answer Seanay00's question: when you manually set core voltage, lets say 1.4V, the voltage is always the same, even when your computer is idling and is supposed to slow down and reduce clock speed and voltage, its always 1.4V. Offset voltage is the voltage added to each mode of operation.
So if stock is (Im randomly picking numbers here): 0.9V at idle, and 1.3V at load... and you chose 0.1V offset voltage.... it will idle at 1.0V and will be 1.4V at load. (both values are offset by +0.1V)

Belial: Actually, I do very little or no gaming. The games I play run fine, or are severely GPU limited. (I have an AMD HD 5570 overclocked to HD 5670 speeds. I like playing around with Photoshop CS6, adding various filters and noise reduction, as well as some general computer use.

I am cooling limited on my setup.... the temps get too high if I push further and it freezes... better cooling would allow me to get 3.7 GHz stable and maybe more.... but better cooling costs the same as a CPU upgrade would.... and for smaller gains.., that's a worse option than a CPU upgrade.
This is why Im considering a Phenom II because the cache brings a little bit of extra performance at the same clock speeds, and I would probably be able to push the chip at least 200MHz further than my Athlon.
Another thing to consider is that the chip is brand new... and not nearly 2.5 years old.

The Phenom 960T looks interesting, but if it cannot be unlocked to a x6 then it is too expensive for a x4 Phenom. I suppose if it only had 1 bad core and I got an X5, that would be acceptable. Availability for that CPU is crappy here too.

I do not really NEED a new CPU. I'm considering this because I can sell my used Athlon II for nearly the price of a new Athlon II, and am looking for a quick and simple upgrade.

For now, the most likely option is the Phenom II x4 965 BE.
The cooler works on AMD and Intel platforms, and is something that I need to get no matter what CPU I get, if I want any decent overclocking performance.

I will probably make my final decision tomorrow.

EDIT: Things are on hold for now. I'm in no hurry wink.gif
Edited by mistaspeedy - 11/29/12 at 1:55pm
post #5575 of 5692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanay00 View Post

Ive got a Corsair H70 with noctua NF-F12 fans and with the cpu at 4.2ghz it only peaks out at around 60 degree's. 1 question thou what is the difference between offset voltage and plain core voltage?? Im using a crosshair IV formula motherboard.

core voltage is the actual voltage. Offset voltage is - or + added to the voltage. Like core voltage is 1.5 if you used the offset -0.05 then when you restarted you BIOS it would drop to 1.45.
Merry Christmas Johnny333 65+++
post #5576 of 5692
I think offset voltage is just the motherboard adding extra voltage. Core_VID (or any VID) is the voltage ID, it's how much voltage that specific item is requesting. So you can have a core_VID of 1.35, but that doesn't mean your vcore, your core's actual voltage, is going to be 1.35. It can vary depending on the motherboard, the PSU, the quality of parts, etc. CPU Offset Voltage or OverVoltage, is just the motherboard supplying extra voltage to the core. Like for example, my VID is only 1.3125, which is below stock, but my motherboard CPU Over Voltage is +.2v, so my vcore is actually 1.488 under load. My VID is slightly above my true vcore, then I get an extra ~.2v offset voltage, which isn't exactly .2v either.

It's just another way to do things. I've found personally, under my system, that it won't POST if I don't have .2v offset voltage, regardless of VID, and I can post no matter my vcore as long as I have .2 offset voltage, when overclocking past 3.6ghz (and I can't post at all if I enable the option 'custom p'states', aka the option that just says can i overclock or not, without +1 offset voltage). On stock settings I don't need any cpu offset voltage, and if I use software to overclock (bad i know), i dont need offset voltage.

Your temps are a bit on the high side but should be fine.
Quote:
Belial: Actually, I do very little or no gaming. The games I play run fine, or are severely GPU limited. (I have an AMD HD 5570 overclocked to HD 5670 speeds. I like playing around with Photoshop CS6, adding various filters and noise reduction, as well as some general computer use.

I am cooling limited on my setup.... the temps get too high if I push further and it freezes... better cooling would allow me to get 3.7 GHz stable and maybe more.... but better cooling costs the same as a CPU upgrade would.... and for smaller gains.., that's a worse option than a CPU upgrade.
This is why Im considering a Phenom II because the cache brings a little bit of extra performance at the same clock speeds, and I would probably be able to push the chip at least 200MHz further than my Athlon.
Another thing to consider is that the chip is brand new... and not nearly 2.5 years old.

The Phenom 960T looks interesting, but if it cannot be unlocked to a x6 then it is too expensive for a x4 Phenom. I suppose if it only had 1 bad core and I got an X5, that would be acceptable. Availability for that CPU is crappy here too.

I do not really NEED a new CPU. I'm considering this because I can sell my used Athlon II for nearly the price of a new Athlon II, and am looking for a quick and simple upgrade.

For now, the most likely option is the Phenom II x4 965 BE + Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo.
The cooler works on AMD and Intel platforms, and is something that I need to get no matter what CPU I get, if I want any decent overclocking performance.

I will probably make my final decision tomorrow.

You can get a Hyper 212+ for $15 free shipping. That's not as expensive as a $60+ cpu upgrade at all.

By the way, the B97 is listed on Ebay for $65, that's a steal. If you are going to upgrade, you should buy that.

If you upgrade your CPU to a phenom, which runs quite hot, remember, you won't be able to get more than 3.6 ghz on the cooler you have now. Athlon x4 is already a deneb chip, all you are doing is literally buying the same exact CPU except that it runs hotter because of an L3 cache. If you are temp limited now with your cooling system on an athlon, if you switch to phenom you are only going to be more limited by temps. So you will have a smaller overclock, with an L3 cache. In order to push an extra 200 mhz over your athlon, your going to need at least a hyper 212+, if not something more than that.

If you dont need a new CPU, dont get one. I dont need a better car than my 2006 mazda but I could sell it and use some extra cash to buy a 2008 civic. If your athlon works for you, and you are GPU limited, not CPU limited, then keep the CPU you have, and if anything, buy a new GPU. The Phenom is not going to be a significant upgrade for you, you really won't notice an improvement unless you got aftermarket cooling and overclocked it to the teeth and got a good binning. The only reason I bought my phenom is because it cost $31 and it was 'broken' and I knew I had a good chance to fix it. Your literally going from a Deneb that is overclocked very very good at 3.6ghz, to a Deneb with an L3 cache that you dont know how well it will overclock, and clock for clock will run much hotter.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Phenom-II-X4-B97-DeskTop-CPU-Socket-AM3-938-pin-HDXB97WFK4DGM-3-2Ghz-6MB-/271113211003?pt=CPUs&hash=item3f1f9b4c7b

This. A phenom 955 OEM that is guaranteed to be C3 revision. This is the best CPU to buy and best CPU for the price. Semi-locked, just like your athlon, and multiplier overclocking on AMD is **** anyways because it disables Coolnquiet/powernow/c1e.
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post #5577 of 5692
Hey All!

I'm new to the forum and am having a blast reading through all the great info and feedback. Thought I'd share my current specs and see what the OC world thinks. I've been tinkering with the settings, trying out some suggestions that others have provided, and looking to see what I can squeeze out of this tough guy. Please feel free to give feedback and/or suggestions. Thanks! thumb.gif

These are my latest stable specs. I have been able to run 4GHz but not stable.

Cpu: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition
Stepping: C3
Frequency: 3900 MHz
ref*multi: 200*19.5
CPU voltage: 1.404
nb frequency: 2000 MHz
RAM: G.SKILL Value Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 (PC3 10666) 9-9-9-24 2T
Motherboard: BIOSTAR TA890GXB HD
cooling: ZALMAN CNPS 7500 AlCu (will be upgrading, reportedly not compatible with >95W processors)
OS: 7 64-bit
GFLOPS: 47
Temps: Idle-32, Load-68

http://valid.canardpc.com/2608897

-That1chrisguy
post #5578 of 5692
Currently working on my OC on my 965 BE. Not trying anything too extreme, but I do want to reach 4GHz. So far I have it at 200Mhz base clock on a x20 multi with 1.476V (this board has a rather bad vcore drop when at full load, which I know is hurting my OC). Running OCCT and it has been passing so far. While it does not get as warm as my old Phenom 9650, the suggested max temp. on these things is much lower and I'm already hitting 60*C. The NB runs perfect at 2600Mhz with 1.2V; I can do 2800Mhz and even 3000Mhz, but I have to crank the voltage all the way to 1.45+, and that murders my temps. I don't plan to touch the RAM, since I opted to go for quantity over quality this time around.
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FX 8320 Sabertooth 990FX Nitro+ RX480 Kingston HyperX Fury 
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post #5579 of 5692
i wish i had a screenshot of my 965 i had it up to 4350 mhz but i just recently got a FX6300.
post #5580 of 5692
I have a question about OC'ing my 965 BE. My system specs are in my sig rig. So, here goes.

I am new to overclocking and when I set up the auto tune for my MoBo it clocked my CPU up to 3.6 from 3.4, not a huge jump, but cool with me. I have read up on how to overclock and I have made some failed attempts at getting it past 3.6. I started with just trying to adjust the multiplier, but I could not get it stable past what the MoBo clocked it too.

Okay, now my question. My Core Voltage, according to CPU-Z, is at 1.48V. I have read that these chips can only handle up to 1.55V, so if that is the truth then am I out of luck? Did I just get an unlucky chip? From what I know, the voltage will help stabilize an OC after fiddling with the multiplier.

Here are the specs right now:

Core Speed: 3684.47 MHz
NB Speed: 2167.25 MHz
HT ref. Clock: 216.73 MHz
Voltage: 1.48V
Multiplier: 17x
NB Multiplier: 10x
RAM timings: 9-9-9-24-1T

When testing my OC I could get it to boot most of the time, but it always failed in prime95, one time it passed 3DMark11 but failed in prime95. So now I am just stuck with what the MoBo auto clocked it to. I have a sinking feeling that my RAM may be a weak link in the system.
Sorry if I posted this in the wrong place and any help or explanation would be greatly appreciated.
onlyHAFsane
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onlyHAFsane
(10 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 Sapphire HD7950 Vapor-X Corsair Vengance LP (2x4GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSKeyboard
Samsung 840 EVO WD Black Windows 7 x64 Logitech G105 
PowerMouse
SeaSonic X650 Fully Modular Mionix Naos 5000 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE  ASUS M5A97 Evo Sapphire Radeon 7850 HD 2GB 8GB (2x4GB) Corsair XMS3 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
Seagate Barracuda 759GB ASUS DVD-RW 24x F-2x120mm R-1x120mm 2x80mm Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO w/ Swiftech Helix 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 x64 Panasonic 42" Plasma Logitech K400 Antec HCG 520M 
CaseOther
Cooler Master HAF XB NZXT 5 Channel Fan Controller  
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