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[Official] OCN Headphones and Earphones Club - Page 1317

post #13161 of 37767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeaj View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post

Finally EQ'd my HE-500s flat. They sound great, but they're a lot more fatiguing now. Perhaps downing the preamp might help..if not I'll have to lower the higher frequencies.

I'm curious. Do you have a screenshot of the settings? Flat to what standard or procedure?

I wouldn't say there's a single right answer here, so just wondering what you came up with.

Obviously I don't have an excellent means of getting a perfect flat, but with the limitations of the software I have available atm and with MediaMonkey being my player of choice...

This is what should be ...about...a flat EQ for the HE-500s.



This is my EQ by ear (what sounds best to me).


Here's the EQ based on what the EQ should be looking at the graph:


If I had a better EQ I could do better and if I spent more time than a minute on this I could probably have done better, but it works for me.
What do you think? I think alternatively the red line COULD also be a bit lower which would allow some of me EQ to be less drastic, but overall I think it's about right.

Also taking into account the fact that planars have lower high end frequency responses than dynamic drivers, I think the red line is pretty accurate.

Let me see if I understand what you're trying to do. The red line is the target response you want for the bottom setting, right? (Except that you have the bass up around 6 dB, above what the red line says.) That's flat in the sense of being a straight line, but people mostly are talking about flat as in level. But it's more complicated than that.
Details, a couple HeadRoom graphs not normally seen (Click to show)
Maybe you know all this already, but I'll spell it out for anybody else reading this. Somebody let me know if I make a mistake here... Anyway, if a headphone measured completely level on somebody's head (or a dummy's head), when measured at the eardrum, that would sound nowhere close to flat. For sounds coming from a distance away, people's ears amplify some frequencies significantly more so than others. That's the head-related transfer function. People get used to this altered response because that's how their ears always work in the real world. How much gain, and which frequencies, depends on the angle of incidence of the sound waves and the person's ear shape and so on. Using headphones (strapping the sound source right next to your ear and so on) bypasses or at least vastly alters the anatomical "gain" associated with the ear and head, etc. So to get a flat-sounding response, you need to compensate for this gain by boosting certain frequencies.

HeadRoom graphs smooth the measured raw frequency response and then adjust it according to some curve so it matches what a headphone is supposed to do to compensate for the head-related transfer function. Or not exactly. Different people across industry and academia don't really agree on what the proper "flat" response for headphones should be. In reality, it should be different for each person because their ears are shaped differently, and more. But even for the so-called average person, there are disagreements.

You can see what their compensation is by looking at a raw FR graph from them (I don't think it's available officially, but I have a bunch of images from when somebody posted a collection—seems like a site rip) vs. the compensated FR. Example:


All the changes are above 1 kHz. Note that this data is not smoothed—bumps may be from a car passing by or whatever other kind of measurement artifact. e.g. that blip at 12 Hz is probably not anything real

Anyway, the point is that subjectively, people don't seem to feel a level FR on a HeadRoom graph would correspond to a level response to them. Maybe their compensation is not realistic. It's possible that the 5-6 dB difference between the graphed response and the red line between 2-3 kHz on the HE-500 graph you posted, actually shouldn't be so large.

In fact, many other review sites, which also use compensation curves but different ones, show a modest FR spike around 2.5 kHz on AKG K601 and K701 / K702 / Q701. Guess what's not really there on the HeadRoom graph above? Just some different perspective to think about: flat to HeadRoom might not be right. Go ahead and use whatever sounds better, anyway.
post #13162 of 37767
im in. Sennheiser HD 465
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post #13163 of 37767
Thread Starter 
Alright, things have drastically changes for me, so now I'm curious:

How would a HE400 or HE500 fair out of a Titanium HD? Which set would be better? I've had a huge budget increase, but only caveat (for DACs/Amps) is that I'm limited to Amazon.
 
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post #13164 of 37767
My guess is not great out of the card alone. They really need an amp from what I've read. If your budget went up enough, though, Fiio amps (and others) are sold on amazon.
post #13165 of 37767
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidzoo View Post

My guess is not great out of the card alone. They really need an amp from what I've read. If your budget went up enough, though, Fiio amps (and others) are sold on amazon.

Which FiiO would push enough power through them, though? I considered it, but I didn't really know people regarded them as good for high-ish end headphones.
 
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post #13166 of 37767
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeaj View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post

rest of the post (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeaj View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post

Finally EQ'd my HE-500s flat. They sound great, but they're a lot more fatiguing now. Perhaps downing the preamp might help..if not I'll have to lower the higher frequencies.

I'm curious. Do you have a screenshot of the settings? Flat to what standard or procedure?

I wouldn't say there's a single right answer here, so just wondering what you came up with.

Obviously I don't have an excellent means of getting a perfect flat, but with the limitations of the software I have available atm and with MediaMonkey being my player of choice...

This is what should be ...about...a flat EQ for the HE-500s.



This is my EQ by ear (what sounds best to me).


Here's the EQ based on what the EQ should be looking at the graph:


If I had a better EQ I could do better and if I spent more time than a minute on this I could probably have done better, but it works for me.
What do you think? I think alternatively the red line COULD also be a bit lower which would allow some of me EQ to be less drastic, but overall I think it's about right.

Also taking into account the fact that planars have lower high end frequency responses than dynamic drivers, I think the red line is pretty accurate.

Let me see if I understand what you're trying to do. The red line is the target response you want for the bottom setting, right? (Except that you have the bass up around 6 dB, above what the red line says.) That's flat in the sense of being a straight line, but people mostly are talking about flat as in level. But it's more complicated than that.
Details, a couple HeadRoom graphs not normally seen (Click to show)
Maybe you know all this already, but I'll spell it out for anybody else reading this. Somebody let me know if I make a mistake here... Anyway, if a headphone measured completely level on somebody's head (or a dummy's head), when measured at the eardrum, that would sound nowhere close to flat. For sounds coming from a distance away, people's ears amplify some frequencies significantly more so than others. That's the head-related transfer function. People get used to this altered response because that's how their ears always work in the real world. How much gain, and which frequencies, depends on the angle of incidence of the sound waves and the person's ear shape and so on. Using headphones (strapping the sound source right next to your ear and so on) bypasses or at least vastly alters the anatomical "gain" associated with the ear and head, etc. So to get a flat-sounding response, you need to compensate for this gain by boosting certain frequencies.

HeadRoom graphs smooth the measured raw frequency response and then adjust it according to some curve so it matches what a headphone is supposed to do to compensate for the head-related transfer function. Or not exactly. Different people across industry and academia don't really agree on what the proper "flat" response for headphones should be. In reality, it should be different for each person because their ears are shaped differently, and more. But even for the so-called average person, there are disagreements.

You can see what their compensation is by looking at a raw FR graph from them (I don't think it's available officially, but I have a bunch of images from when somebody posted a collection—seems like a site rip) vs. the compensated FR. Example:


All the changes are above 1 kHz. Note that this data is not smoothed—bumps may be from a car passing by or whatever other kind of measurement artifact. e.g. that blip at 12 Hz is probably not anything real

Anyway, the point is that subjectively, people don't seem to feel a level FR on a HeadRoom graph would correspond to a level response to them. Maybe their compensation is not realistic. It's possible that the 5-6 dB difference between the graphed response and the red line between 2-3 kHz on the HE-500 graph you posted, actually shouldn't be so large.

In fact, many other review sites, which also use compensation curves but different ones, show a modest FR spike around 2.5 kHz on AKG K601 and K701 / K702 / Q701. Guess what's not really there on the HeadRoom graph above? Just some different perspective to think about: flat to HeadRoom might not be right. Go ahead and use whatever sounds better, anyway.

Like I said, there were 2 EQ's for a reason. Despite whatever a headphone should look like, I always go with what sounds best to me (hence my personal EQ..which actually looks similar to how that flat line I drew looks like, but perhaps mine is a bit more fluid/smooth.

I think I need to mess with my EQ a bit though, because it is a bit fatiguing whereas the HE-500 flat(no EQ) is the opposite of fatiguing..still the EQ really does help the HE-500..i just need to find a balance between my EQ and a lack of EQ (Basically a non-fatiguing) EQ.

I'll play more with it tomorrow.







I wouldn't get the HE-400 without an amp and I definitely wouldn't get the HE-500 without an amp. Either raise your budget to fit an amp or look for a cheaper headphone.

You can always go and sell your headphone when you get more funds down the road to purchase whatever headphone you're looking for..

(while I have the money to buy all the headphones I want. I had planned to sell off the HE-400 for the HE-500..I'm still looking to sell off the HE-400..but wanted my HE-500 now).


Also, just because I like HIFIMAN doesn't mean it's the best headphone for you...There are other headphones that are great for different reasons.
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post #13167 of 37767
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post

I wouldn't get the HE-400 without an amp and I definitely wouldn't get the HE-500 without an amp. Either raise your budget to fit an amp or look for a cheaper headphone.

You can always go and sell your headphone when you get more funds down the road to purchase whatever headphone you're looking for..

(while I have the money to buy all the headphones I want. I had planned to sell off the HE-400 for the HE-500..I'm still looking to sell off the HE-400..but wanted my HE-500 now).


Also, just because I like HIFIMAN doesn't mean it's the best headphone for you...There are other headphones that are great for different reasons.

Well I'll just say my budget has raised enough to warrant either one with a proper amp, but my only catch is I'm limited to Amazon. If that's possible, then I'm open to suggestions smile.gif.

My overall listening experience goes as follows:

50% - Electronic, Dubstep, etc.
25% - Hardcore, Metal, etc.
20% - Rock, Indie, Folk, etc.
5% - Rap, HipHop, R&B, etc.

I appreciate my bass, and I find quality and quantity to be equally important. I like my mids to be fairly neutral, if not a bit recessed (voices, high-pitched snares can often get to me/be fatiguing), and I love my treble (which I find the DT 770s to lack a bit of clarity on) to be clear and bright (I'm a Grado fan wink.gif).

And I'll give you two songs that will represent what the majority of my listening is like:
 
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post #13168 of 37767
Yeah he500 not for u at all. He400 maybe but youd be better suited with a pro 900 or that persons modified d2ks
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post #13169 of 37767
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post

Yeah he500 not for u at all. He400 maybe but youd be better suited with a pro 900 or that persons modified d2ks

Would that really be an upgrade to my Beyers, though? I ask a lot of questions because I like to know what I'm about to get myself into when I spend over $400 tongue.gif.
 
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post #13170 of 37767
Quote:
Originally Posted by pez View Post

Would that really be an upgrade to my Beyers, though? I ask a lot of questions because I like to know what I'm about to get myself into when I spend over $400 tongue.gif.

oh yeah.
    
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Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 MHDT Steeplechase Wireworld Solstice 6 RCA interconnects RCA Splitter 
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Furman PS-PRO II 
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AudioAudioAudioAudio
Sennheiser HD600 Wireworld Ultraviolet USB Wireworld Oasis 6 XLR interconnects Wireworld Solstice 6 RCA interconnects 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 MHDT Steeplechase Wireworld Solstice 6 RCA interconnects RCA Splitter 
Other
Furman PS-PRO II 
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