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[Official] OCN Headphones and Earphones Club - Page 1545

post #15441 of 37805
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC'ing Noob View Post

Having only owned one pair of each headphones, I did not know that. Great piece of wisdom shared there! +Rep

What worries me is the amount of time it takes to swap cables, how much of a subject will forget what he just heard? That said, you make a great point about sound positioning. My Grados and AKG's use to take a few adjustments to sound just right.

5 reps is I could probably muster with my short attention span towards repetitive testing. tongue.gif

30 seconds max. If you forget what you heard in that amount of time, you really shouldn't be spending money on aftermarket cables. Or expensive headphones for that matter.
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post #15442 of 37805
That's why switchbox (or equivalent, physical or not) is key, if you're testing small things in general.

The memory fades really quickly; it really needs to be pretty much instantaneous.

Actually, an important corollary to different headphones of the same model sounding a bit different is that the L and R sides of most headphones, even expensive models, tend not to be matched that well. For good models and good sets, we're talking under 1 dB differences throughout most of the critical frequency range (excluding the extremes and so on); many headphones, including those that cost hundreds or many hundreds of dollars, do definitely worse than that on a typical set.

This is one of the reasons I'm a bit skeptical of many audiophiles focusing so much on gear, never mind cables. I think it's mostly misdirected energy that could be going elsewhere for greater gains (for sound quality, not for cool factor or whatnot). That's just my opinion though.
post #15443 of 37805
You can objectively test cables. Easily.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-cable-measurements-part-one-page-2

This is purely via cables and not 'cheating' by putting say resistors within the cable etc..

Not to mention laughably overpriced, see said example here:

http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2012/10/heir-audio-3ai.html
post #15444 of 37805
Quote:
Originally Posted by friend'scatdied View Post

There is an important distinction to be made between what is measurable and what is audible.

Yeah, effectively everything that can be audible is measurable.
For IEMs, things like insertion depth affecting frequency response are HUGE things to consider.
Good luck without a dummy head trying to get the same insertion depth every time for test purposes.
post #15445 of 37805
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1rrah View Post


Killer hobby, this.

;-)


Well written and described man.
Although bass "monster" not too sure anything can touch of of the earphones I've called bass monsters in the years.
Simply because some haven't ever heard a real bass monster.
Ie. TFTA 1XB. Mental.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anoxy View Post

Also, you shouldn't be "believing" in cables. Either you hear a difference or you don't. Believing in something is where things go awry.

I heard a difference in cables.
Want a cookie now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC'ing Noob View Post

Properly testing cables would actually be really hard to do. The proper test IMO would be this.

Audio Tracks:
- Treble sounds
- Midrange Sounds
- Bass Sounds
- Variety of different HD music at various speeds
* Each track should be a 20 second loop

Equipment:
- Audio switch for fast A/B blind testing
- Multiple pairs of identical headphones, difference being the cable
- Benchmark DAC and neutral amp
- Isolated and clean sound room
- Head mold with microphones inside to make sure volume is constant
- Blindfold

Test Subjects: Multiple people with multiple degrees of hearing

Procedure:
- Wear blindfold
- Play a 20 second audio track
- Switch headphones
- Play a 20 second audio track
- Vote which one sounds better and how
- Randomize order of which headphones and repeat 4 more times
- Move on to new pair of headphones and repeat process

If enough people agree that custom HQ cables sound better, then it will probably be as close to substantiated evidence as we can get.

but then one could say - you have to do this with every single headphone, amp and source.
Story goes on.
Edited by Totally Dubbed - 5/10/13 at 7:37pm
post #15446 of 37805
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesekiwi View Post

Yeah, effectively everything that can be audible is measurable.

Indeed, the corollary being that the inverse isn't necessarily true (e.g. infinitesimal changes in distortion, jitter, et al).



As an aside, I'm surprised to think that the Q701s are actually very nice. If you asked me to choose between the K701 or HD 650 three years ago I'd pick the 650s every time. Today, I think I could see myself with the Q701 instead. This might be due to my prolonged exposure to the JH13s exclusively, whose sound signature is closer to the Q701 than the HD 650 (relatively speaking, here). Regardless, I think the Q701s are an amazing buy for ~$250.

But astonishingly, I find the W3000ANVs to be noticeably better for gaming. The Q701 has given me some misdirection where I couldn't pinpoint the virtualized sounds as accurately. It was weird based on all the sterling recommendations I read about the Q701s being the third ultimate gaming headphones (short of the HD 800s and AD700s, anyway).
Edited by friend'scatdied - 5/10/13 at 7:45pm
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post #15447 of 37805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Totally Dubbed View Post

I heard a difference in cables.
Want a cookie now?
.
Nah I don't eat cookies. And you didn't say if it was a double blind test where you heard the difference.
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post #15448 of 37805
Quote:
Originally Posted by friend'scatdied View Post

Indeed, the corollary being that the inverse isn't necessarily true (e.g. infinitesimal changes in distortion, jitter, et al).



As an aside, I'm surprised to think that the Q701s are actually very nice. If you asked me to choose between the K701 or HD 650 three years ago I'd pick the 650s every time. Today, I think I could see myself with the Q701 instead. This might be due to my prolonged exposure to the JH13s exclusively, whose sound signature is closer to the Q701 than the HD 650 (relatively speaking, here). Regardless, I think the Q701s are an amazing buy for ~$250.

But astonishingly, I find the W3000ANVs to be noticeably better for gaming. The Q701 has given me some misdirection where I couldn't pinpoint the virtualized sounds as accurately. It was weird based on all the sterling recommendations I read about the Q701s being the third ultimate gaming headphones (short of the HD 800s and AD700s, anyway).
I knew the Sennheiser HD 800 would be great for gaming headphones, as someone pointed out when he used it in BF3. I wonder how the Fostex TH-900 would fare as a gaming headphone.
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post #15449 of 37805
Quote:
Originally Posted by friend'scatdied View Post

Indeed, the corollary being that the inverse isn't necessarily true (e.g. infinitesimal changes in distortion, jitter, et al).



As an aside, I'm surprised to think that the Q701s are actually very nice. If you asked me to choose between the K701 or HD 650 three years ago I'd pick the 650s every time. Today, I think I could see myself with the Q701 instead. This might be due to my prolonged exposure to the JH13s exclusively, whose sound signature is closer to the Q701 than the HD 650 (relatively speaking, here). Regardless, I think the Q701s are an amazing buy for ~$250.

But astonishingly, I find the W3000ANVs to be noticeably better for gaming. The Q701 has given me some misdirection where I couldn't pinpoint the virtualized sounds as accurately. It was weird based on all the sterling recommendations I read about the Q701s being the third ultimate gaming headphones (short of the HD 800s and AD700s, anyway).

because people don't differentiate between imaging and soundstage width and depth. All different things.
post #15450 of 37805
Quote:
Originally Posted by friend'scatdied View Post

Indeed, the corollary being that the inverse isn't necessarily true (e.g. infinitesimal changes in distortion, jitter, et al).

However there's been scientific literature on the human limits of hearing in regards to these for at least 15 years now. e.g. crosstalk shouldn't really even enter the discussion these days in terms of measurements because even the crappiest onboard sound chip has better than what's audible crosstalk measurements (-30 to -35 dB).
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