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[Official] OCN Headphones and Earphones Club - Page 2433

post #24321 of 38146
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWulfe View Post

Is it bad that I'm considering the idea of picking up a Schiit Bifrost alongside the Asgard2 (and quite possibly the Valhalla so I can test out my thoughts on tubes)? Sure my Focusrite interface is nice, but the idea of having a setup for just listening to music (and not all the extra stuff I use my Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 for)...

Burson HA-160 is a really nice solid state amplifier for the money ($300-350 used). the chassis is made out of 6mm thick aluminum L brackets and weighs about 10 lbs. the volume knob, stepped attenuator, R-Core transformer are all custom. headphone jacks are made by Neutrik (left = 150-600 ohm, right = 15-150 ohm) and I can't remember who makes the RCA jacks but they're quality. the output stage is dual mono design that uses Burson's discrete modules (not an IC op-amp). I still enjoy my HA-160 smile.gif

I love tube amplifiers and own a Decware Zen Taboo MKIII with upgrades but I can't recommend it because it's an amplifier made for enthusiasts.

the HAD Audiolab Maestral line looks interesting

http://www.head-fi.org/t/709711/review-had-audiolab-maestral-ii
    
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post #24322 of 38146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjj226 Angel View Post

There is not a single physicist that I know would look at two tubes and tell me they perform exactly the same.
Reference the Carver Challenge. Carver was able to engineer a $700 solid-state amplifier that sounded exactly the same as a rave-review $12,000+ valve amplifier.

Unfortunately a fair number of tube circuits these days are compromised (the ideal valve circuit was perfected sometime in the 1930s). As iterated earlier, audible differences from "rolling tubes" on such designs will result from varying amounts of nonlinear distortion being injected into the signal under different load circumstances. In most cases the circuit will never operate with ideal linear performance.

I don't understand the direction of the rest of your argument re: HRTFs and equal loudness contours, and don't fully realize the angle chinesekiwi is approaching it from either. The response curve of the headphones/transducers should be an independent (but related) point of discussion from upstream performance.

As far as upstream performance is concerned, we can achieve ideal response free of audible linear aberrations or nonlinear distortion for <$100. The goal of the upstream should be to allow unimpeded performance of the load driven, i.e. not adding/subtracting anything from the expected response of the transducers.

That returns me to another corollary which might be valid if you prefer your upstream to not conform to the ideal response (as seems to be the case):
Quote:
Originally Posted by friend'scatdied View Post

But whether they're electrostatic, orthodynamic or electrodynamic, whether they're headphones or speakers, transducers will never reach a level of performance that is exact to the original recording. The best we can hope for is a crude facsimile of what was played at the venue. There's an infinite variety of interpretations here and people will go for what they like.

In a certain light, I shouldn't lambast the exotic/tube crowd. Since we can't hope for perfect audio reproduction at the transducer level, what good does a reference upstream do us anyway? Might as well go for something that sounds good to you and most importantly makes you happy, naysayers be damned.
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post #24323 of 38146
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC'ing Noob View Post

EQ is also the easiest and best way to tune the sound to how you want it without buying different colored headphones, amps, or sources. I have personally used EQ to tune songs that hurt my ears so I personally know it is effective. Is it always ideal? No, but it is often the best option in terms of price/value. Would you rather buy a new pair of brighter headphones or tweak the treble provided it doesn't introduce any negative distortion you can hear. This is just my opinion and experience.
I have to say that I disagree to an extent. While EQ can fix smaller problems, if you've got a large change in tonal balance that you need to make, it cannot be done through software EQ. Only hardware EQ I've used is on my Fiio E17, and it was terrible, so I can't speak for hardware EQ. I've never found an EQ to be as effective, even in small changes, as a mod (like dampening my DT770's) or a hardware swap. The headphones were engineered to sound roughly a certain way, and I wouldn't be surprised to see problems arise with distortion in even small amounts of EQing, just a theory though.
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post #24324 of 38146
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd View Post

I have to say that I disagree to an extent. While EQ can fix smaller problems, if you've got a large change in tonal balance that you need to make, it cannot be done through software EQ. Only hardware EQ I've used is on my Fiio E17, and it was terrible, so I can't speak for hardware EQ. I've never found an EQ to be as effective, even in small changes, as a mod (like dampening my DT770's) or a hardware swap. The headphones were engineered to sound roughly a certain way, and I wouldn't be surprised to see problems arise with distortion in even small amounts of EQing, just a theory though.

I must not have stated it very clearly. I am NOT saying that EQ can fully replace the audio changes a different colored pair of cans can bring. This is impossible as far as I can tell. That said, for smaller changes, tuning the sound using EQ is a lot better from a price to value perspective than to purchase a different colored headphones. The downside of EQ is that you can introduce distortion that makes things sound worse. There is also the fact that most people can't EQ for beans.
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post #24325 of 38146
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWulfe View Post

I see. So tube DACs are more for the look with a very slight tweaking of the sound?

And if I'm understanding things, you'd recommend one of the previously mentioned DACs as well as the Lyr?

http://members.chello.nl/~m.heijligers/DAChtml/Analogue/Amplification.html

this engineer created a DIY Tube D/A converter inspired by the Audio Note DAC-3. he explains the sonic and technical reasons (in great detail) why he chose a tube.
    
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post #24326 of 38146
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC'ing Noob View Post


I must not have stated it very clearly. I am NOT saying that EQ can fully replace the audio changes a different colored pair of cans can bring. This is impossible as far as I can tell. That said, for smaller changes, tuning the sound using EQ is a lot better from a price to value perspective than to purchase a different colored headphones. The downside of EQ is that you can introduce distortion that makes things sound worse. There is also the fact that most people can't EQ for beans.
Then we're on the same page! thumb.gif
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post #24327 of 38146
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd View Post

Then we're on the same page! thumb.gif

Yeah! I wish EQ could replace headphones, then I wouldn't have needed to invest in my LCD-2's. biggrin.gif That said, EQ has its own cons, especially if you don't EQ correctly or use a poor EQ pre-settings.
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post #24328 of 38146
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC'ing Noob View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd View Post

Then we're on the same page! thumb.gif

Yeah! I wish EQ could replace headphones, then I wouldn't have needed to invest in my LCD-2's. biggrin.gif That said, EQ has its own cons, especially if you don't EQ correctly or use a poor EQ pre-settings.

Yeah something nobody told me is that it's better to do cuts rather than boosts in EQ. Typically this gives you more room to work without distortion. Or at least this is what I've found in my experience.
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post #24329 of 38146
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd View Post

Yeah something nobody told me is that it's better to do cuts rather than boosts in EQ.

Yes and no depending on implementation but general rule is yes due to risk of digital clipping.
Quote:
The goal of the upstream should be to allow unimpeded performance of the load driven, i.e. not adding/subtracting anything from the expected response of the transducers.

Exactly. To compensate for the lack of isolation in different frequencies due to headphone design, the frequency response of headphones designed with neutrality in mind (which is based off the diffuse field equalisation line which I showed before) is compensated accordingly by boosting that response to that certain frequency thus why you cannot directly compare frequency response graphs of headphones without factoring in how they isolate at different frequencies.

EQ is fine when the EQ is good quality and you know what you are doing and can change things such as the q factor and what frequency the q factor peaks at, like EqualizerAPO does. Using a q factor to octave calculator and an octave to frequency calculator does wonders.

the digital files you listen to are all full of software produced sounds and production tools so to dismiss software in terms of improving sound is laughable.

My 'EQ' is compensating for the 'room' that happens when one headphone cup goes over one ear.
All this stuff is nothing new in terms of psychoacoustics, it's been all discovered since the late 80s....
post #24330 of 38146
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesekiwi View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd View Post

Yeah something nobody told me is that it's better to do cuts rather than boosts in EQ.

Yes and no depending on implementation.
please explain?
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CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
[Barrow] D5 Heatsink/Reservoir/Heatsink [Barrow] White 1/2"x3/4" Compression Fittings [Primochill] Advance LRT Clear 1/2"x3/4" Tubing [Alphacool] NexXxos XT45 360mm 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
[Alphacool] NexXxos Monsta 240mm [Microsoft] Windows 10 Pro x64 [ASUS] MG279 Freesync 1440p IPS [Razer] BlackWidow X Tournament Edition w/Vorte... 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
[Corsair] RM850i w/custom cables [Phanteks] Enthoo Evolv ATX Tempered Glass [Razer] Deathadder Elite [Corsair] MM300 Extended 
AudioOther
(See audio in signature) [Ikea] Tornliden Desk 
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Ryzen & Vega
(22 items)
 
Wanted: [Wanted] LGA1155 ITX Motherboard
$75 (USD) or best offer
The Spectre
(28 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
[AMD] Ryzen R7 1700 w/EK Supremacy Evo AMD [MSI] X370 XPower Gaming Titanium [AMD] Vega Flagship GPU [G.Skill] Trident Z RGB 2x8GB @3000MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
500GB M.2 SSD [WD] 2TB Black HDD [NZXT] AER RGB 120 (x7) [NZXT] AER RGB 140 (x1) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
[Barrow] D5 Heatsink/Reservoir/Heatsink [Barrow] White 1/2"x3/4" Compression Fittings [Primochill] Advance LRT Clear 1/2"x3/4" Tubing [Alphacool] NexXxos XT45 360mm 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
[Alphacool] NexXxos Monsta 240mm [Microsoft] Windows 10 Pro x64 [ASUS] MG279 Freesync 1440p IPS [Razer] BlackWidow X Tournament Edition w/Vorte... 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
[Corsair] RM850i w/custom cables [Phanteks] Enthoo Evolv ATX Tempered Glass [Razer] Deathadder Elite [Corsair] MM300 Extended 
AudioOther
(See audio in signature) [Ikea] Tornliden Desk 
  hide details  
Reply
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