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[Official] OCN Headphones and Earphones Club - Page 2435

post #24341 of 38156
Kind of a basic question, but if I were to switch my Schiit Magni out for a Vali what sort of difference would it makes with my DT880's?

Don't say the sound will be warmer, I don't speak audiophile! tongue.gif

Would it be a worthwhile thing to do? Thanks.
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post #24342 of 38156
I am not talking about the tube circuits, so IDK why you are referencing the carver challenge. I am talking about the ACTUAL tubes.


"As iterated earlier, audible differences from "rolling tubes" on such designs will result from varying amounts of nonlinear distortion being injected into the signal under different load circumstances. In most cases the circuit will never operate with ideal linear performance."

........righhhht. I do not understand your point. From what I can tell you agree with me that rolling tubes makes and audible difference and it is NOT a placebo effect.
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post #24343 of 38156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjj226 Angel View Post

I am not talking about the tube circuits, so IDK why you are referencing the carver challenge. I am talking about the ACTUAL tubes.
........righhhht. I do not understand your point. From what I can tell you agree with me that rolling tubes makes and audible difference and it is NOT a placebo effect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by friend'scatdied View Post

The "tube rolling" can only be of significance if the tube perceivably changes aspects of the circuit, generally amounting to varying presence of nonlinear (and linear) distortion.
When changing tubes, you may be changing the characteristics of the circuit even if the topology remains the same.

In simpler terms, if tube rolling makes a difference then the system is fundamentally flawed.

Here's the type of valve implementation I prefer (McIntosh MC275, one I bet bumblebee would be all about based on the output transformers):

Very linear performance with +-0.5dB variance from flat. Sound approaches solid-state and likely indistinguishable from one in proper DBT.

Here's the type of valve implementation you'd prefer (Hyperion HT-88):

Note the differences in scales. Deviations on the order of +-1.5dB which will certainly be audible in practice.

The HT-88 is already a defective design, so there's no telling what kind of voluntary distortion and randomness you're introducing into your playback signal with it in the first place. You might conceivably get the MC275 to sound closer to the HT-88 (i.e. worse) by substituting tubes that make the final circuit categorically flawed. These are power amplifiers but the implications are consistent with headphone amplifiers.

Keep it mind that auditory memory is exceptionally unreliable so a DBT with proper controls is a must to definitively validate the existence of differences. I wonder if people can actually confidently DBT different tubes in their systems.
Edited by friend'scatdied - 4/3/14 at 11:23am
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post #24344 of 38156
Quote:
Originally Posted by twerk View Post

Kind of a basic question, but if I were to switch my Schiit Magni out for a Vali what sort of difference would it makes with my DT880's?

Don't say the sound will be warmer, I don't speak audiophile! tongue.gif

Would it be a worthwhile thing to do? Thanks.

Warmer is the best way to describe! haha!
I think you'd get slightly more emphasis on the bass, treble will be slightly less emphasised.

oh here you go, Twerk; http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/bbs/stereophile_audio-glossary.html
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post #24345 of 38156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magical Eskimo View Post

Warmer is the best way to describe! haha!
I think you'd get slightly more emphasis on the bass, treble will be slightly less emphasised.

oh here you go, Twerk; http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/bbs/stereophile_audio-glossary.html
Seems like it might be a worthy purchase then. Thank you.

I love my DT880's but I have to EQ them slightly (+5 dB at 100 Hz curving down to flat) to get a more enjoyable bass.
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post #24346 of 38156
Quote:
Originally Posted by twerk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magical Eskimo View Post

Warmer is the best way to describe! haha!
I think you'd get slightly more emphasis on the bass, treble will be slightly less emphasised.

oh here you go, Twerk; http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/bbs/stereophile_audio-glossary.html
Seems like it might be a worthy purchase then. Thank you.

I love my DT880's but I have to EQ them slightly (+5 dB at 100 Hz curving down to flat) to get a more enjoyable bass.

Basically, your male voices/lower (not bass) instruments will be a bit emphasized whereas the higher instruments will be less emphasized. The highs will be ever so slightly rolled off, and very slight bass emphasis.

I owned the Schiit Vali for a short time, and I loved it. I just happened to find an irresistible deal on a massive tube amp that I couldn't pass up.
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post #24347 of 38156
For what it's worth, you could make a tube amp brighter or flat or whatever if you wanted. The whole "tube sound" thing is a vast generalization.

Also, some peoples' subjective impressions are opposite or contradictory to others' when presented the same sound, for a number of reasons. Sometimes the descriptions don't seem to match what would be expected based on engineering analysis of systems (sounds) and psychoacoustics, which some say is a result of problems with the models and others say is just listener inconsistency and/or bias (it could be both too).
Quote:
Originally Posted by twerk View Post

Kind of a basic question, but if I were to switch my Schiit Magni out for a Vali what sort of difference would it makes with my DT880's?

Anyway, I think it's worth pointing out that there are technical reasons some tube amps have say boosted bass or rolled-off treble, which result in perceptions and descriptions that the sound is warm for certain headphones. But these don't apply to the Vali and those headphones.

First of all, the Vali's a hybrid design anyway, with vacuum tubes for voltage gain but solid-state transistor-based power output. If you take Schiit's specs at face value, -3 dB rolloff point in the treble is at 100 kHz. It's probably not at a noticeable level down in the audio band. And the output impedance is listed at 6.5 ohms, which means there is a minimal impact on the frequency response (tonal balance) unless perhaps you're talking about the DT 880 32 ohms version, in which case the impact would still be very mild.

There are and could be other ways the amp is affecting the sound, but the mostly direct electrical cause for extra perceived warmth doesn't seem to be applicable here.
post #24348 of 38156
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeaj View Post

For what it's worth, you could make a tube amp brighter or flat or whatever if you wanted. The whole "tube sound" thing is a vast generalization.

Also, some peoples' subjective impressions are opposite or contradictory to others' when presented the same sound, for a number of reasons. Sometimes the descriptions don't seem to match what would be expected based on engineering analysis of systems (sounds) and psychoacoustics, which some say is a result of problems with the models and others say is just listener inconsistency and/or bias (it could be both too).
Quote:
Originally Posted by twerk View Post

Kind of a basic question, but if I were to switch my Schiit Magni out for a Vali what sort of difference would it makes with my DT880's?

Anyway, I think it's worth pointing out that there are technical reasons some tube amps have say boosted bass or rolled-off treble, which result in perceptions and descriptions that the sound is warm for certain headphones. But these don't apply to the Vali and those headphones.

First of all, the Vali's a hybrid design anyway, with vacuum tubes for voltage gain but solid-state transistor-based power output. If you take Schiit's specs at face value, -3 dB rolloff point in the treble is at 100 kHz. It's probably not at a noticeable level down in the audio band. And the output impedance is listed at 6.5 ohms, which means there is a minimal impact on the frequency response (tonal balance) unless perhaps you're talking about the DT 880 32 ohms version, in which case the impact would still be very mild.

There are and could be other ways the amp is affecting the sound, but the mostly direct electrical cause for extra perceived warmth doesn't seem to be applicable here.

I can tell you with confidence that the Vali tilts warm, bassy and rolled off. I owned it for enough time to get comfortable with the sound. It is relatively slight, but it exists.
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post #24349 of 38156
Oppo PM-1 started shipping. it will probably be a while before I get my hands on one frown.gif I'm hoping Oppo nails it on the first try but that is rarely the case.

http://www.oppodigital.com/headphones-pm-1/
    
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post #24350 of 38156
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee1980 View Post

Oppo PM-1 started shipping. it will probably be a while before I get my hands on one frown.gif I'm hoping Oppo nails it on the first try but that is rarely the case.

http://www.oppodigital.com/headphones-pm-1/

Can run on mobile devices.

Wantttttttt
Ryzen & Vega
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Wanted: [Wanted] LGA1155 ITX Motherboard
$75 (USD) or best offer
The Spectre
(28 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
[AMD] Ryzen R7 1700 w/EK Supremacy Evo AMD [MSI] X370 XPower Gaming Titanium [AMD] Vega Flagship GPU [G.Skill] Trident Z RGB 2x8GB @3000MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
500GB M.2 SSD [WD] 2TB Black HDD [NZXT] AER RGB 120 (x7) [NZXT] AER RGB 140 (x1) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
[Barrow] D5 Heatsink/Reservoir/Heatsink [Barrow] White 1/2"x3/4" Compression Fittings [Primochill] Advance LRT Clear 1/2"x3/4" Tubing [Alphacool] NexXxos XT45 360mm 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
[Alphacool] NexXxos Monsta 240mm [Microsoft] Windows 10 Pro x64 [ASUS] MG279 Freesync 1440p IPS [Razer] BlackWidow X Tournament Edition w/Vorte... 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
[Corsair] RM850i w/custom cables [Phanteks] Enthoo Evolv ATX Tempered Glass [Razer] Deathadder Elite [Corsair] MM300 Extended 
AudioOther
(See audio in signature) [Ikea] Tornliden Desk 
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Ryzen & Vega
(22 items)
 
Wanted: [Wanted] LGA1155 ITX Motherboard
$75 (USD) or best offer
The Spectre
(28 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
[AMD] Ryzen R7 1700 w/EK Supremacy Evo AMD [MSI] X370 XPower Gaming Titanium [AMD] Vega Flagship GPU [G.Skill] Trident Z RGB 2x8GB @3000MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
500GB M.2 SSD [WD] 2TB Black HDD [NZXT] AER RGB 120 (x7) [NZXT] AER RGB 140 (x1) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
[Barrow] D5 Heatsink/Reservoir/Heatsink [Barrow] White 1/2"x3/4" Compression Fittings [Primochill] Advance LRT Clear 1/2"x3/4" Tubing [Alphacool] NexXxos XT45 360mm 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
[Alphacool] NexXxos Monsta 240mm [Microsoft] Windows 10 Pro x64 [ASUS] MG279 Freesync 1440p IPS [Razer] BlackWidow X Tournament Edition w/Vorte... 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
[Corsair] RM850i w/custom cables [Phanteks] Enthoo Evolv ATX Tempered Glass [Razer] Deathadder Elite [Corsair] MM300 Extended 
AudioOther
(See audio in signature) [Ikea] Tornliden Desk 
  hide details  
Reply
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