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post #24551 of 38154
going to buy this

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/ear-opening-experience-chesky-ultimate-headphone-demonstration-disc
    
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post #24552 of 38154
Quote:
Originally Posted by pez View Post


Meanwhile, you guys argue a point I'm not trying to make. I'm not trying to get that into detail with it. I appreciate both your's appreciation to the scientific approach to it, but it's just not how I personally approach it.

Sure, on paper, things may look fantastic, but when did it become so wrong to have preferences?

I'm open minded enough to admit what I honestly can't tell the difference between, and what I can. I can tell a difference between a Modi DAC and the DAC of my TiHD. I can also tell the difference in the Magnum DAC I have. At that accord, I noticed the glaring differences, and probably not so much the subtle ones; and even when I think I hear subtle differences, I chalk it up to testing error (different volumes, USB vs. sound card, etc.).

So what's the point you're trying to make? Even on paper things only need to be "fantastic" enough that humans can't practically tell the difference between it and something yet more "fantastic."

And I wouldn't distort how little I care about people who aren't pursuing ideal performance:
Quote:
Originally Posted by friend'scatdied View Post

In a certain light, I shouldn't lambast the exotic/tube crowd. Since we can't hope for perfect audio reproduction at the transducer level, what good does a reference upstream do us anyway? Might as well go for something that sounds good to you and most importantly makes you happy, naysayers be damned.

As to your last paragraph, just a friendly reminder that perceived differences are invalid if the level-matching error exceeds 0.2dB or if the switching delay exceeds one second. The former condition is known, while the latter condition is rationalized here.
Edited by friend'scatdied - 4/15/14 at 5:21pm
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post #24553 of 38154
Quote:
Originally Posted by friend'scatdied View Post


Or it'll be your eyes and/or brain being subjected to expectation bias, aesthetic appeal or even sentimentality.
Well said. Ambient noise, expectation bias, post-purchase rationalization, and groupthink are all very real phenomena that render hi-fi meets useless for detecting upstream differences. They're great for tasting headphones though.

I went to the shop today and tried out the HD800s! :thumb: A few people on the internet have said that they feel the sound is a bit too bright. I think it's fine as is. I would have like a little bit more bass, but I think part of it is actually the tracks I'm listening to. My sub just makes this muddy boomy bass for all the low end sounds, so everything is boomy - maybe the track itself isn't that boomy. And so when I listen to different tracks, the bass is at different levels compared to mostly just an indistinguishable low boomy sound from the sub. Then again, comparing $1500 headphones to a $100 sub isn't really a fair comparison.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post


Your ears are useless outside of blind testing though. It's just too easy to convince yourself that you can hear something that isn't there... and the people who think they don't do that tend to be the ones doing it the most.

Often I'm the first to admit I can't hear a god damned difference between this and that, lol. Almost to a point where it's lame. I think that makes me a poor audiophile. Oh well. :D

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OC'ing Noob View Post

*puts on LCD-2's* LOUD NOISES! thumb.gif

ORLY NOW! :thumb:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pez View Post



Meanwhile, you guys argue a point I'm not trying to make. I'm not trying to get that into detail with it. I appreciate both your's appreciation to the scientific approach to it, but it's just not how I personally approach it.

Sure, on paper, things may look fantastic, but when did it become so wrong to have preferences?

I'm open minded enough to admit what I honestly can't tell the difference between, and what I can. I can tell a difference between a Modi DAC and the DAC of my TiHD. I can also tell the difference in the Magnum DAC I have. At that accord, I noticed the glaring differences, and probably not so much the subtle ones; and even when I think I hear subtle differences, I chalk it up to testing error (different volumes, USB vs. sound card, etc.).

I don't get why you quotes CrazyTaco. All he said was, do a blind test. He's not arguing about scientific measurements. Just testing your ears in a way that prevents your mind from distorting your results. You can say you prefer not to blind test and that's your right. But then it becomes fact that the way you tell apart differences in audio is not foolproof. And you might not care, and that is your choice. It's just that I have different opinions about that.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'so wrong'. Nobody here is belittling you for being different. We just disagree, is all.

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post #24554 of 38154
if you like bass you should try the Audeze LCD-2. it's cheaper and I think they come with the LCD-3 pads now.
    
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post #24555 of 38154
Quote:
Originally Posted by pez View Post

I hate when all these 'scientific' arguments get brought up. Sure I see their purpose, but at some point, your ears are going to give you a telltale sign of which you like better.

There's going to be some subtle differences with different pairings, and that's what ultimately lets people know what they like. Trying to argue your setup is better because science says so or because you say so, because your opinion is better and of more value just becomes silly and makes you look like a fool. These are why meets are important. They let you experience systems that you aren't used to; use headphones that some only dream of owning/hearing. It helps you reduce your bias (or not).

Some people's bias get in the way, here, at Head-fi; all over. I try to give my own personal experiences in a manner that's unbiased, and not try to assume about products I haven't even heard. Different people perceive different products in different ways.

Don't forget that ears are as unique as fingerprints.

Right, without listening to stuff we'd have no idea which parameters and measurables actually mattered and by how much. It's people listening and your ears and everyone's that determine that stuff like this is true:
Quote:
Originally Posted by friend'scatdied View Post

Two different products might measure differently at 1KHz (or even a broadband range), with one exhibiting a THD of 0.04% and the other a THD of 0.0012%. This difference is measurable, but will not be audible.

Yes, people different people perceive different products in different ways, and furthermore at every different time listening. No two experiences are the same, and these are influenced by a whole lot more than the sound that's coming out.

I say that people should go out and listen to things for themselves, especially for headphones. You make the point that our ears are all different, but it goes deeper than that for headphones. The balance of (real-life) sound out in space is a bit different for each person because of body / head / ear / ear canal shapes, and that's the reference point they have when listening to things or speakers or whatnot. The balance on headphones is also different for each person, but not in the same ways, so each person gets a different sound at their eardrum. And the difference between the headphone sound and real life also varies by the person, so the effective balance people hear is legitimately a few dB different maybe in the treble.



Also, don't be afraid to try cheaper stuff too. Nobody said a flagship had to be your favorite headphone. (but yeah, most everyone would take one of those)
Edited by mikeaj - 4/15/14 at 5:46pm
post #24556 of 38154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

I went to the shop today and tried out the HD800s! thumb.gif  A few people on the internet have said that they feel the sound is a bit too bright. I think it's fine as is. I would have like a little bit more bass, but I think part of it is actually the tracks I'm listening to. My sub just makes this muddy boomy bass for all the low end sounds, so everything is boomy - maybe the track itself isn't that boomy. And so when I listen to different tracks, the bass is at different levels compared to mostly just an indistinguishable low boomy sound from the sub. Then again, comparing $1500 headphones to a $100 sub isn't really a fair comparison.

If you liked the HD 800 enough to justify the outlay, just go ahead and grab them. You can make some relatively simple and cheap foam inserts that will enhance the bass and soften the treble a bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee1980 View Post

if you like bass you should try the Audeze LCD-2. it's cheaper and I think they come with the LCD-3 pads now.

I don't think the Aud'eze headphones have any particular bass emphasis of note. They're so flat up until the lower treble that I wouldn't recommend them for bassheads as that would be doing an injustice to how well they handle the midrange.

The new LCD-2 and LCD-3 also come with that newfangled Fazor technology for what it's worth. Not sure if this means a good or a bad thing for the end-user.
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post #24557 of 38154
Quote:
Originally Posted by friend'scatdied View Post

If you liked the HD 800 enough to justify the outlay, just go ahead and grab them. You can make some relatively simple and cheap foam inserts that will enhance the bass and soften the treble a bit.
I don't think the Aud'eze headphones have any particular bass emphasis of note. They're so flat up until the lower treble that I wouldn't recommend them for bassheads as that would be doing an injustice to how well they handle the midrange.

The new LCD-2 and LCD-3 also come with that newfangled Fazor technology for what it's worth. Not sure if this means a good or a bad thing for the end-user.

the bass is bottomless and has more body than the Sennheiser HD800.

this is the only picture of the Audeze LCD-2 driver I can find (due to the difficulty taking them apart) it's a real treat.



the silver piece is the fazor?
    
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post #24558 of 38154

I'm not a basshead per say, I like treble, my midrange, my bass. I like to think I have a balanced preference.

 

My real amazement is how people manage to make headphones. Just the fact that an electronic device can make sound like music! That amazes me. But for headphones, how they manage to stuff all that into such a small package. Yeah, speakers get louder than headphones, but still. I think it's crazy.

 

Am I crazy?

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post #24559 of 38154
the only thing I don't like about Audeze headphones is the weight.. I don't like having the Audeze LCD-3 on my head for more than a couple hours but I guess it's a problem inherit with the technology. nothing makes me happier than plugging the Audeze LCD-3 in the Decware and pour my self a drink while I wait for the tubes to warm up.

with the money you save buying the Audeze LCD-2 you could buy a pair of Sennheiser HD600 or a nicer amplifier.
    
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post #24560 of 38154
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee1980 View Post

the bass is bottomless and has more body than the Sennheiser HD800.

By definition the Aud'eze drivers will operate more linearly and extend lower. More body than the HD 800 might be going there though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

I'm not a basshead per say, I like treble, my midrange, my bass. I like to think I have a balanced preference.
HD 800. If you want to save some coin for now, HD 600.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee1980 View Post

the only thing I don't like about Audeze headphones is the weight.. I don't like having the Audeze LCD-3 on my head for more than a couple hours but I guess it's a problem inherit with the technology. nothing makes me happier than plugging the Audeze LCD-3 in the Decware and pour my self a drink while I wait for the tubes to warm up.

They're surprisingly comfortable due to the high-quality and cushy pads IMHO. The weight is well-distributed.

I don't know how I feel about Aud'eze always iterating (with LCD-2s having at least four or five revisions by now). Makes it confusing to know what you're getting from retailers or especially second-hand.
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