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The real Green Machine (lots of pics, have fun 56K) - Page 21

post #201 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayce185 View Post
Hehe, wait until I get the second TRUE sanded to the HP's

I'm currently stuck at getting the E5200 stable. Then I'll go and make my cakebox fanshrouds for the Delta's and see how cool they run.
ever thought of getting a popper true since you love them that much
post #202 of 246
Reading the FP makes me want to sell my current rig and start all over -_-...

4890's are sooo cheap!!!!

Anyways, great build man!!!! Looks super good.
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post #203 of 246
Thread Starter 
Wooo page three!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrasonic2 (muffy) View Post
ever thought of getting a popper true since you love them that much
The copper TRUE has absolutely no benefit over the standard TRUE. I've read various reviews on it, and none showed any improvement, except the improvement of getting a lighter wallet.

Now the IFX-14, that's a different story/project...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIpha View Post
Reading the FP makes me want to sell my current rig and start all over -_-...

4890's are sooo cheap!!!!

Anyways, great build man!!!! Looks super good.
Thank you sir!


I say: DO IT!!!
post #204 of 246
i dont know what your reading .. you can tell the Copper one will be better without even taking it out of the box.. they're both basically the same, but one has copper fins V aluminium and since copper conducts heat almost twice as good as aluminium ... the copper TRUE will be better. However in a lot of light load situations the difference maybe negligible. In your case. Your probably loading the heat sink up with 360watts of heat

i just did a google search and every one i clicked on said the Copper TRUE was better
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coo...x_8.html#sect0
http://icrontic.com/articles/thermal...opper-review/4
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/articl...ooler_review/3
http://www.virtual-hideout.net/revie...r/index2.shtml
Edited by Ultrasonic2 (muffy) - 7/24/09 at 9:46pm
post #205 of 246
isn't the copper one like motherboard-breaking-ridiculously heavy?
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post #206 of 246
The more that I'm thinking about it if you throw a QX9650 (135W TDP) on a TRUE, the temps are pretty much aweful (70C). You are trying to run a 95W+545W=640W Load on a TRUE....I think we were asking too much. I don't know exactly what the max TDP the TRUE or the TRUE Copper can take but I'm sure it's not 640W
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post #207 of 246
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrasonic2 (muffy) View Post
i dont know what your reading .. you can tell the Copper one will be better without even taking it out of the box.. they're both basically the same, but one has copper fins V aluminium and since copper conducts heat almost twice as good as aluminium ... the copper TRUE will be better. However in a lot of light load situations the difference maybe negligible. In your case. Your probably loading the heat sink up with 360watts of heat

i just did a google search and every one i clicked on said the Copper TRUE was better
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coo...x_8.html#sect0
http://icrontic.com/articles/thermal...opper-review/4
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/articl...ooler_review/3
http://www.virtual-hideout.net/revie...r/index2.shtml
Weird. The one or two reviews I flew over didn't make it seem so much better, at least not enough to justify the price. At least the Xbitlabs one shows only a mere 1-2°C on a push pull setup. Meh, I'd rather go custom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIpha View Post
isn't the copper one like motherboard-breaking-ridiculously heavy?
Let's see...

I already had the 790g TRUE, the 790g TEC7plates and two 320g UK3000's pressing against bare dies using the bolt through mod with M4 screws.

I don't think a few grams more would harm the CPU

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenInferno View Post
The more that I'm thinking about it if you throw a QX9650 (135W TDP) on a TRUE, the temps are pretty much aweful (70C). You are trying to run a 95W+545W=640W Load on a TRUE....I think we were asking too much. I don't know exactly what the max TDP the TRUE or the TRUE Copper can take but I'm sure it's not 640W
95W? 545W? I guess ou have your numbers a bit wrong...

The 95W of the CPu are at stock clocks... and I don't think anyone get's a QX9650 to run at those speeds
And the 545W from the TEC are at Qmax... which is not recommended and has crappy thermals. I haven't measured the amps yet, but at 10-12V the TEC shouldn't be going over 150W.

Plus: If the TEC setup is effective, you shouldn't really be adding the entire wattage of the CPU onto the hot side, as you are cooling it with the cold side running at temps below ambient.
post #208 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayce185 View Post
95W? 545W? I guess ou have your numbers a bit wrong...

The 95W of the CPu are at stock clocks... and I don't think anyone get's a QX9650 to run at those speeds
And the 545W from the TEC are at Qmax... which is not recommended and has crappy thermals. I haven't measured the amps yet, but at 10-12V the TEC shouldn't be going over 150W.

Yes, the 95W is at stock speeds which is basically saying that I was underestimating the CPU at higher speeds. The TEC you linked from ebay is a 545W TDP TEC 62mm plate, which means at full operation at stock the TRUE would have to dissapate 95W+545W=640W to have the full power of the TEC unleashed. Since the TRUE cannot handle it, it is heating up the cold side giving you much higher temps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayce185 View Post
Plus: If the TEC setup is effective, you shouldn't really be adding the entire wattage of the CPU onto the hot side, as you are cooling it with the cold side running at temps below ambient.
Since the Cold plate is actually doing work to dissapate the heat on the CPU, the delta(TDP) of the system does include the heat the CPU puts off. Example: the computer is off and the TEC is on. The TDP from the CPU is roughly 0W on top of ambient(which makes the arguement very complicated very fast) and the CPU would be at lower temps than if the CPU was on, because the TEC doesn't have to do the extra work of dissapating the 95W TDP from the CPU.

Because of the fact the true seems to be overloaded and is unable to cool more than a certiain TDP less than the CPU and the TEC at full blast, then all you've done is created more heat on the TRUE and the heat on the hot plate will eventually heat the cold plate enough to raise temps above the normal temps for regular air cooling.

If you could adequetely cool the hot plate, then the thermals for the full 545W TEC would be amazing and not crappy. It's just that we can't cool it that much with just a TRUE.
Edited by ChickenInferno - 7/25/09 at 12:32pm
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post #209 of 246
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenInferno View Post
Yes, the 95W is at stock speeds which is basically saying that I was underestimating the CPU at higher speeds. The TEC you linked from ebay is a 545W TDP TEC 62mm plate, which means at full operation at stock the TRUE would have to dissapate 95W+545W=640W to have the full power of the TEC unleashed. Since the TRUE cannot handle it, it is heating up the cold side giving you much higher temps.



Since the Cold plate is actually doing work to dissapate the heat on the CPU, the delta(TDP) of the system does include the heat the CPU puts off. Example: the computer is off and the TEC is on. The TDP from the CPU is roughly 0W on top of ambient(which makes the arguement very complicated very fast) and the CPU would be at lower temps than if the CPU was on, because the TEC doesn't have to do the extra work of dissapating the 95W TDP from the CPU.

Because of the fact the true seems to be overloaded and is unable to cool more than a certiain TDP less than the CPU and the TEC at full blast, then all you've done is created more heat on the TRUE and the heat on the hot plate will eventually heat the cold plate enough to raise temps above the normal temps for regular air cooling.
Yeah you're basically confirming what I already know

I'm thinking of about 350W TDP from the entire setup: 150W max of an OC'd processor, and 200W max of an adjusted TEC setup. Any more, and the TEC won't be running optimally anyway. Plus: The Meanwell can only handle 350W at 12V... I doubt the TEC is pulling 29 amps from that.
post #210 of 246
You might consider looking at what Manyak did. He was using 2x480BIX radiators and was getting good temps (Doesn't know for sure how low he went because he didn't have temp sensors, but he was having cold boot problems so it was low) before he bricked his mobo with condensation/improper insultation.

He also had a big problem with wires at one point. Aparantly, you need around 10gauge wires for a decent TEC and that it can cause it to no run cool/run correctly....though for you it may increase the problem since the TRUE doesn't seem up to it.
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