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[Official] Mechanical Keyboard Club - Because saving money is boring. - Page 1303

post #13021 of 36906
Yeah. If I really wanted to decide on what keyboard switch to buy next, I would have to actually try reds and blacks. I'm not sure how I would, though, as I don't have any friends or anyone I know personally that owns one. I do have a friend with browns, and they were just what I expected: a slightly mushier (I almost don't want to use that word because it brings rubber dome to mind) and quieter blue switch. I don't mind them, but I like by blues, provided that I can use them without annoying anyone with the noise. As I said, I don't really know how they would compare to reds or blacks. But between those two, from what I've heard, I seem to be leaning towards blacks.

EDIT: I just now read up on the numbers, and the reds and browns have the same actuation force: 45g. Blues are at 50g, and blacks are at 60. I have heard many a time (including from exyia on the last page, for example) that the reds are too easy to push, making typing sometimes difficult. I had no trouble with typing on browns, so this leaves me confused. Another thing: should I be looking at the peak force rather than the actuation force? If so, that changes things entirely. I'm right back to where I started, and I think I just need to try each switch somehow before I can make a definite decision.
Edited by CptAsian - 5/25/13 at 3:46pm
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post #13022 of 36906
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptAsian View Post

What are you going to do with the Trigger?

going to sell once I get home and take pics

pretty much getting rid of both my CM Storm products. Trigger and Sirus 5.1 Headset

they're nice peices, but it wasn't until lately that I realized that these just don't fit me

Red's just aren't my kind of switch and the seperate volume knob thing on the Sirus just doesn't fit the way I have my desk setup. once I took a second to consider my minor annoyances, I felt it was time to try something new
post #13023 of 36906
I've got a Filco with MX Blacks that should be delivered today. Will be trying it out extensively, but I have a feeling I may go back to Browns. I think all of the switches feel different. Blues felt very different from Browns. You'd need to use them for a week or two--initial impressions are definitely based of what we already know, so it may seem like mushier Blues at the start. But I think they are different entirely. Even Reds and Blacks--both being only different because of their springs--felt quite different.

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post #13024 of 36906
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElevenEleven View Post

I've got a Filco with MX Blacks that should be delivered today. Will be trying it out extensively, but I have a feeling I may go back to Browns. I think all of the switches feel different. Blues felt very different from Browns. You'd need to use them for a week or two--initial impressions are definitely based of what we already know, so it may seem like mushier Blues at the start. But I think they are different entirely. Even Reds and Blacks--both being only different because of their springs--felt quite different.

Whereabouts are you?

I'm burning in the sun all the way down in Georgia. And that is true about having to try out a different keyboard for a week or so rather than just typing on it for an hour.
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post #13025 of 36906
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptAsian View Post

EDIT: I just now read up on the numbers, and the reds and browns have the same actuation force: 45g. Blues are at 50g, and blacks are at 60. I have heard many a time (including from exyia on the last page, for example) that the reds are too easy to push, making typing sometimes difficult. I had no trouble with typing on browns, so this leaves me confused. Another thing: should I be looking at the peak force rather than the actuation force? If so, that changes things entirely. I'm right back to where I started, and I think I just need to try each switch somehow before I can make a definite decision.

part of me thinks it's due to me being a sub-100% accurate typer, but I am what I am, and the Red just annoys me. Maybe it's because my fingers hover ever so slightly and move slightly to reach backspace and such - I don't rest my fingers on the keyboard and stretch fingers

because of this, sometimes when I go for a keypress, my finger might slightly miss and just graze the adjacent key. I think I've been like this for so long, that my muscle memory tells myself when I've grazed it "too much" and I instantly reach for backspace before even checking

but the reds simply register even the slightest graze, so now it's highlighting/adding to every single misfire. It's gotten to the point lately where I am typing slower and reading my sentences AS I TYPE to backspace/correct as I go - in games of dota this is too much time

so ultimately, I slapped myself and accepted the fact that reds aren't my kind of switch. I still want a linear, faster responding key - Reds feel phenomenal in shooters, I feel like I move much smother and faster - so I convinced myself to try Black (as well as liking hte features on the Mech5)
post #13026 of 36906
Quote:
Originally Posted by exyia View Post

part of me thinks it's due to me being a sub-100% accurate typer, but I am what I am, and the Red just annoys me. Maybe it's because my fingers hover ever so slightly and move slightly to reach backspace and such - I don't rest my fingers on the keyboard and stretch fingers

because of this, sometimes when I go for a keypress, my finger might slightly miss and just graze the adjacent key. I think I've been like this for so long, that my muscle memory tells myself when I've grazed it "too much" and I instantly reach for backspace before even checking

but the reds simply register even the slightest graze, so now it's highlighting/adding to every single misfire. It's gotten to the point lately where I am typing slower and reading my sentences AS I TYPE to backspace/correct as I go - in games of dota this is too much time

so ultimately, I slapped myself and accepted the fact that reds aren't my kind of switch. I still want a linear, faster responding key - Reds feel phenomenal in shooters, I feel like I move much smother and faster - so I convinced myself to try Black (as well as liking hte features on the Mech5)

Huh. Okay, this makes me think that I should be looking at the peak force rather then the actuation force, although I'm still not completely sure. I still don't know what to think about which switch would best suit me without trying any of them for long periods of time, so I've come up with a solution. I'll just buy three keyboards, one with browns, one with reds, and one with blacks... rolleyes.gif
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post #13027 of 36906
Just skimmed over the last couple of posts since I last checked. And I just have to say I LIKE REDS!
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post #13028 of 36906
And now we have a supporter of reds to counter exyia's experience... I did just think of something, though. I could get myself one of each switch on WASD keyboards, though that wouldn't allow me do to a long term sorta test that borrowing a keyboard from a friend would allow me to do. Think that would be a reasonable idea?
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post #13029 of 36906
Actuation force is the force required to push your button at ~2mm from the uncompressed position. The force it takes to get to that 2mm is a different story. There's a tactile bump before reaching the actuation point in Browns.



You have to overcome a 55cN bump or so (estimating from the diagram) to reach the actuation point. Once you overcome the bump, moving down to the actuation point is really easy, and somewhat inertial. The reds have no such bump, and the force required to push down just increases linearly.



That said, the difference between having the bump and not having the bump is not trivial in terms of the feel. I actually feel the bump makes typing easier. Perhaps initially counterintuitively, but once you overcome that light bump at the top, actuation quickly follows. Reds just felt mushy linear spring-like, with nothing to hint you when to stop pressing down, and so you'd bottom out more easily. Typing on Browns, I rarely had to bottom out at all (I'm a soft touch-typist), as they give you a soft queue to stop and move on to another key. If you look at the diagrams, it still takes just over 60cN of force to bottom out Reds and Browns. So you're going to be doing more work if you bottom out the keys.

Here are Blues in comparison:

8846736e_785448034edc7cebb9ea660c5f11e288.jpeg

You overcome a 60cN bump to reach the actuation point that requires 55cN.

Actuation force is not the whole story at all. HOW you get to the actuation point (2mm of compression) and what follows the actuation (2mm-4mm) is what really creates your typing experience. The tactile bumps before the actuation point make the keys a bit more like rubber domes, though rubber domes start off with the bump right away.
Edited by ElevenEleven - 5/25/13 at 6:08pm
   
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Corsair H100i Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP-14 x 4 (radiator front... Phanteks 140mm fan (exhaust) Fractal Design R2 Silent 140mm fan (bottom intake) 
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Windows 7 Professional 64-bit Windows 8 Professional 64-bit (trying it out) Linux Mint Achieva ShiMian 27" IPSB (tempered glass) 
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Logitech MX518 Monoprice dual-surface aluminum IKEA Dioder light-changing LED strip on the roof Monoprice 10 x 6.25" drawing tablet 
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Achieva ShiMian 27" IPSB (tempered glass) Ducky Shine II MX Clears Corsair AX750 BitFenix Survivor in White 
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post #13030 of 36906
Holy crap. That makes a lot more sense now. The thing is that I'm not at all a soft touch typist, as you say you are, as I bottom out my blues with every keystroke. That makes me think that I won't have a problem with accidentally hitting a key with reds, but the actuation force is what matters when considering an accidental keystroke, as that wouldn't necessarily involve bottoming out. The actuation force is lower, so that means that an accidental keystroke is more likely on reds than on blues for that reason, correct? I hope that made some sense... I still think I should just order some switches to try em out.
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The Phoenix
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The Qube V2
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Zephyr
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[Intel] i5-3570K [MSI] Z77A-GD65 Gaming [Sapphire] HD 7990 "Malta" 6GB [Avexir] Core Series 4x4 DDR3-1600 (Red LED) 
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[Samsung] 840 EVO 250GB SSD [Arctic Cooling] Liquid Freezer 120 [SilenX] Effizio 120mm Case Fan [SilenX] Effizio 120mm Case Fan 
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[SilenX] Effizio 80mm Case Fan [SilenX] Effizio 80mm Case Fan [Microsoft] Windows 7 Professional 64-bit [Dell] Ultrasharp U2312HM 1920x1080 
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[Dell] Ultrasharp U2312HM 1920x1080 [WASD] Code TKL with Cherry MX Clear Switches [Seasonic] X-850 [Riotoro] CR1080 
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[Logitech] G600 [XTracPads] Ripper XXL Gaming Mat [M-Audio] Studiophile Q40 [Fiio] E10 USB Amp/DAC 
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[Samson] Go Mic [Bitfenix] Alchemy Sleeved Cable Extensions [NZXT] Sleeved White LED Kit 
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