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Cooler Master V10 Modding - Page 3

post #21 of 82
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flak-spammer View Post
...But you cannot use TWO TECs you just will not have enough air cooling power on that poor sucker.
Why cant i use 2? the original would be cooled by the V10's heatpipes and fans. The 2nd would have its own heatsink and a fan (Evercool 40mm or a Dynatron 40mm). I have not tried either yet, but do have them on hand to test as soon as i can get a new TEC or get the one i have working.
    
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post #22 of 82
Where are you going to put the heatsink? If you intend to hang it off the heatpipe piece where the TEC already is then no it won't work. You'd need to have a very tiny heatsink and thus a very tiny TEC. It would be much easier to find a slightly larger TEC 90w or so and use that then it would be to try and hang a tiny heatsink off the back and have enough mounting pressure as well as cooling.
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post #23 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by phatman81 View Post
Why cant i use 2? the original would be cooled by the V10's heatpipes and fans. The 2nd would have its own heatsink and a fan (Evercool 40mm or a Dynatron 40mm). I have not tried either yet, but do have them on hand to test as soon as i can get a new TEC or get the one i have working.
There are a lot of problems with you plan the TEC must sit on a completely flat base so you will need to get a plate for it to sit on. TEC's need tensioning between two plates/plate+waterblock to 150-300psi if you don't the heat transfer can be quite severely compromised along with the longevity of the TEC's life. To use afan on the hotside you will another plate.
The other problem is heat is not removed finitely so the heatpipes will not remove all the heat from the first TEC and will be warming the coldside of the top TEC compromising it's performance

Bottom line your plan will "work" (if you undervolt the TEC and don't use one too big otherwise Flaks right the heat output will be too much.)....but as far as the performance of the TEC is concerned it will be absolutely carpy. but if you don't expect too much it may keep you as happy as a sandboy....


EDIT...
Quote:
Originally Posted by phatman81 View Post
also, if i recall, the efficiency is best @ 1/2 the rated voltage? If that is correct, would running a stronger one off the 5V wire in the molex yeild a better result?
I just realized what you said....the other problem is 5V IS NOT 1/2 voltage the TEC's in the coolit are 15.6v units.
Edited by zipdogso - 8/4/09 at 5:33pm
post #24 of 82
Zipdogso not to harp or anything but this thread has nothing to do with coolit it's about the V10. Perhaps you're sleepy or something. Anyways running them at 1/2 Umax is a great idea except that the higher Qmax TECs are not 12v or even 15v they are 24+v. So it can be hard to find PSUs that offer the right voltage range and a high current.
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post #25 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by flak-spammer View Post
Zipdogso not to harp or anything but this thread has nothing to do with coolit it's about the V10. Perhaps you're sleepy or something. Anyways running them at 1/2 Umax is a great idea except that the higher Qmax TECs are not 12v or even 15v they are 24+v. So it can be hard to find PSUs that offer the right voltage range and a high current.
The kind of TEC's he wants on here are 15.6v I know jolly well the big ones are 24v

Coolermaster, coolit, or any other one who cares.... Hybrid coolers like this work off the molex and with 2 ? fans in v10 and the controller circuit (neither of which need a large amperage) it reduces the availble current a bit.
I have had a look at the V10 and it states 70w max with a 9.8Amp max. It might be a custom unit but from what I have seen they are generally standard units, it might be a 100 couple but it's not very likely so it probably is a 127 couple 15.6v with slightly larger couples to take it up from 8.5 amps. So this unit is very close to the old industry standby the 12708, or it could be a 12709.
So basically this unit is undervolted 15.6v pretty much like the coolit units....there isn't much between them.

Like I said in my post he will need two plates to add one on the back.

If he wants to exchange the TEC he will have to be careful how big he goes because it will cause problems with heat...certainly he will be advised to stay below 226w and since 226w is about the area for the first 24v TEC his TEC will be a 15.6v unit. and a half power that is not 5v as he said.
Edited by zipdogso - 8/6/09 at 11:06am
post #26 of 82
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipdogso View Post
...I just realized what you said....the other problem is 5V IS NOT 1/2 voltage the TEC's in the coolit are 15.6v units.
I do know that 12/2=6, but i was just using that as an example since it was already there @ the molex. I just wasn't sure how much of a loss it would be with the extra volt missing. now if they are 15+V, then i can see how this would be too little voltage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zipdogso View Post
...but if you don't expect too much it may keep you as happy as a sandboy...
As for the return, i am only looking to knock dow a few more degrees (along with other TIM changes to the NB/mosfets/etc to see if i can get a better OC and to drop the system temps a bit. If it would knock it down to just above dew point, i'd consider it a win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zipdogso View Post
There are a lot of problems with you plan the TEC must sit on a completely flat base so you will need to get a plate for it to sit on. TEC's need tensioning between two plates/plate+waterblock to 150-300psi if you don't the heat transfer can be quite severely compromised along with the longevity of the TEC's life. To use afan on the hotside you will another plate.
The other problem is heat is not removed finitely so the heatpipes will not remove all the heat from the first TEC and will be warming the coldside of the top TEC compromising it's performance
Im glad you brought this up, since this is where my main concerns lie. I had a feeling a back plate would be necessary, but didnt realize how much until now. I can def make a plate to cover the back and with spacers fill out the extra space between the new and old plates. Also, it looks like i would be able to maybe use the original screw holes, just with longer bolts. i have some AC thermal epoxy in the mail and can use that to help affix/seal the 2 together. i also have a few heatsinks at home which will work for now(and the fans have arrived).

The next thing to order is a TEC since i cannot get the one i have to work anymore. A new idea that crossed my mind was to have both tec wired to the factory block (power) in parallel. Would this affect the stock TEC if this was done(or maybe blow the stock power distribution unit)? Or run them together of the molex (2 new TEC's)?
Here are the specs for the PSU in the system now:
Output +3.3V@30A,+5V@30A,+12V1@22A,+12V2@22A,+12V3@36A,+1 2V4@36A,-12V@0.5A,+5VSB@3.0A

I appreciate everything you guys have said so far and cant wait to get this rolling to see if i get ANY benefit from all this...
    
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post #27 of 82
Having studied the v10 for another thread ( see http://www.overclock.net/peltiers-te...ybrid-tec.html ) I don't really see what you will gain from putting another TEC on in the manner your hoping.
All it will really achieve is to cool the existing TEC a bit which in turn might cool the heatpipes a bit. One hell of of a lot of effort for next to nothing gain.
A better bet would be to swap the TEC out but due to the design you are very limited as to what you can do and what TEC's you can use.

The problem with putting the TEC's in parallel is while they will both run at the same voltage BUT the current draw from the psu for the whole circuit will double so you wont be powering 2 in parallel from a molex connector as the max current is 7amps.

There is little point in telling me the specs of your PSU as I have no idea of the draw of the rest of the components in your rig which is important. That said though it is NOT a good idea to run TEC's from your normal PSU anyway, a supplementary PSU is always a good idea. There are ways of doing but you need to be very careful. Neither the molex plugs nor the wires in a standard PSU are rated for more than 7amps (well it's actually 8amps but 7 for safety.)
To use more than 7 amps involves cutting off the plugs and soldering some wires together - most don't want to do that - do you ?
post #28 of 82
Thread Starter 
Combining wires is of no issue to me, i do it all the time. I'd be willing to go straight into the PSU and run a Guage0 (overkill, i know) wire if it required it. The mod itself is more for a prep, to me, in working with TEC's. I understand the theory and have read many articles here on the forums, but have never used one or worked with one. the experience i can gain from this silly project is just that, experience. I like to dive in head first, but since i dont feel like possibly ruining an entire system, doing a small project like this keep me from making the little mistakes that i may encounter if i was(will) do a TEC based water cooling project.

As for swapping out the current TEC, it is an option that i have considered, but again i am still trying to find out the threshold that the stock one activates at. As soon as i can get the V10 installed back on the bench, i will run the system and monitor the amps/voltage coming to the stock TEC. depending on those numbers, i would get a comparable TEC, but stronger. Also, hopefully i can find the temperature at which this TEC is activated.

The 2nd TEC, i am hoping to get better results that you are saying, but i also plan to seal gap between the 2 TEC's and the heatpipe with some type of thermal material to aid in the cooling of the heatpipes. This could be copper, aluminum, etc. If i can find a local machine shop,i'd be willing to get a copper plate milled to fit over the pipes and to seal tight to the back of the stick plate. This would allow me to put proper pressure, or close to it, on the tec(s) and to keep the cooling isolated to the pipes.

So at this point i see 3 different scenarios for connecting the TEC:
1. Run in parallel with the stock TEC and off the stock controller.
2. Run the 2nd TEC independant and leave the stock one there as a backup (untouched)
3. Run both TEC (parallel or independant), excluding the stock power block. (both on always)
(excluding voltage/amperage variables at the moment)
    
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post #29 of 82
Well your going ahead with this...let me know how you get on it will be interesting...

mainly because after studying the V10 ans seeing where the original TEC is and what it does I can't see the point in what you plan....

In my last post I said "Having studied the v10 for another thread ( see http://www.overclock.net/peltiers-te...ybrid-tec.html ) I don't really see what you will gain from putting another TEC on in the manner your hoping.
All it will really achieve is to cool the existing TEC a bit which in turn might cool the heatpipes a bit. One hell of of a lot of effort for next to nothing gain."

I'll leave it there...it's over to you...
post #30 of 82
Thread Starter 
I finally got the motherboard HS's TIM'd and reinstalled (also made a tech bench from scratch the other night to get it all organized on) but realized that the heatpipe setup of the 780i leaves very little room to place anything on the back of the V10's stock TEC. At the most a thin plate, TEC and a heatsink (maybe)... Either i havge to remove a portion of the heatpipe and place low profile heatsinks on the mosfets(i think). Not sure what route i can take...

As for the stock TEC, i know that it runs @ 6V. My multimeter could not get me an amperage reading though, so i do not have that. Anyone help in narrowing down what TEC may be in there? I may go the route of replacing the stock on with a stronger aftermarket one now since the initial idea is loosing steam... (of maybe change the internals fans for more airflow?)

From V10 webpage: Power 70W (max) / Rated Current 9.8A (max) / Operation Temperature 25 ~ 70 / Fan Speed 800~2400 R.P.M / Fan Airflow 90 CFM (max) / Fan Dimension (L) 120 x (W) 25 x (H) 120 mm


Custom Thermoelectric Online Store:
look like this is what is in the V10: 75.1 watt, 9.0 amp max, 40x40mm, 130°C rated

Others in the 40x40 size:
100.1 watt, 12.0 amp max, 40x40mm, 125°C rated
141.3 watt, 15.0 amp max, 40x40mm, 125°C rated
85.1 watt, 10.0 amp max, 40x40mm, 200°C rated
100.1 watt, 12.0 amp max, 40x40mm, 200°C rated
190 watt, 13.0 amp max, 40x40mm, 125°C rated
225 watt, 15.5 amp max, 40x40mm, 125°C rated

Possible PSU if needed:
A 100W 7.5Volt 13.5Amp Highly Reliable, Universal AC input/full range single output power supply.
A 300W 12Volt 25Amp Highly Reliable, Universal AC input/full range single output power supply
Edited by phatman81 - 8/10/09 at 6:35pm
    
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