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post #21 of 34
yes.
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post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalkobra
Well, you mustve had defective speakers because everyone else here agrees that this system is the best bang for your buck, maybe you didnt turn the sub up to full blast and actually get all that 188W of bass?

65w per channel...ok, maybe your EQ settings sucked .

96dB is the best possible sound...these are 93.5dB, thats pretty damn close to spec so i still dont see how you say these can be bad, its got 96khz output as well...

Like i said:

1. your EQ sucked
2. you had a defective system
I take major offense to this. You don't even have the slightest bit of knowledge when it comes to sound systems. The only thing you do know is that the one you have is good, and you like it.

Lemme school you a bit:

1) power doesn't mean a thing: you could have 5 watts, you could have 500 watts. but if the speaker can't process the sound effectively, then all you hear is loud static. speakers are the most important thing in any sound system (that may sound obvious now, but just wait). A set of speakers with good crossovers and properly tuned enclosures are worth their weight in gold, even if they don't handle massive amounts of sound. BTW, where did you get 65W/ch and 188W for the sub...it's 100watts all the way around.

2) power doesn't mean anything: speakers that aren't balanced right sound like needles in your brain if there is too much treble, and like a boring rumble with too much bass. Yes, the EQ is important for this, however you don't need an EQ if you speakers are balanced right. Usually tweeters can handle more power than mids and bass drivers, but they are also a lot more efficient with their power consumption. Simply, you don't want that much power going to your satelites, otherwise your sound with be out of balance to begin with. And the amount of power for the subwoofer is relative. If you have a humungus room, you need more power to the bass because the sound with not ressonate properly.

3) WHAT DID I TELL YOU ABOUT POWER??? The Onkyo line of amplifiers and other Harmon Kardon amplifiers utilize high ampridge(?) technology, which means that less voltage is in the wires when the speakers play. Power is a function of volts*amps. Most amps up the voltage of this equation to up the wattage rating (like sony and panasonic), but this produces sound that isn't dynamic. By moving the signal faster down the speaker wire (amps), the signal is more robust, and thus more dynamic.

4) The sound to noise ratio on the Xfi Fatal1ty FPS card is 136 dB. So don't go telling everyone that 96dB is the best.

5) 192kHz processing is amazing for an amplifier. I would be amazed if the amplifiers from non audio companies like Logitech and Creative had even 24kHz audio processors onboard.

6) Let this be a lesson that you should keep your mouth shut unless you truely know what you are talking about. I hate having to do this!

7) Lastly, this is an open forum where you did not start the thread. So don't be bashing people, and saying it must be user error on their part (implying I'm an idiot). Just because you know something, doesn't mean you know everything.


I do not own this system. I was just pointing it out because it fit the price range and the specs were good. Don't go judging people because they want to be helpful.
post #23 of 34
if it was me i wouldnt be purchasing anything that has to do with computer sound systems like logitech etc. go the hifi home theater or stereo way and it kicks arse on anything, you can connect your computer up to any hifi system with an auxillary input (everything) and have killer sound! i run a dolby digital system for my rig from all home theatre components and it is just the only way. (in my opinion) even if you just want to build a budget system you will pretty much allways get a better sound than with the computer systems, go to a hifi shop or somewhere that sells sound gear and have a look around, there is some pretty good deals going around, dont get tricked into thinking that you have a computer and that you need to get computer speakers it all garbage! in my opinion go the hifi way and you will kick arse!
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post #24 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomasro
I take major offense to this. You don't even have the slightest bit of knowledge when it comes to sound systems. The only thing you do know is that the one you have is good, and you like it.

Lemme school you a bit:

1) power doesn't mean a thing: you could have 5 watts, you could have 500 watts. but if the speaker can't process the sound effectively, then all you hear is loud static. speakers are the most important thing in any sound system (that may sound obvious now, but just wait). A set of speakers with good crossovers and properly tuned enclosures are worth their weight in gold, even if they don't handle massive amounts of sound. BTW, where did you get 65W/ch and 188W for the sub...it's 100watts all the way around.

2) power doesn't mean anything: speakers that aren't balanced right sound like needles in your brain if there is too much treble, and like a boring rumble with too much bass. Yes, the EQ is important for this, however you don't need an EQ if you speakers are balanced right. Usually tweeters can handle more power than mids and bass drivers, but they are also a lot more efficient with their power consumption. Simply, you don't want that much power going to your satelites, otherwise your sound with be out of balance to begin with. And the amount of power for the subwoofer is relative. If you have a humungus room, you need more power to the bass because the sound with not ressonate properly.

3) WHAT DID I TELL YOU ABOUT POWER??? The Onkyo line of amplifiers and other Harmon Kardon amplifiers utilize high ampridge(?) technology, which means that less voltage is in the wires when the speakers play. Power is a function of volts*amps. Most amps up the voltage of this equation to up the wattage rating (like sony and panasonic), but this produces sound that isn't dynamic. By moving the signal faster down the speaker wire (amps), the signal is more robust, and thus more dynamic.

4) The sound to noise ratio on the Xfi Fatal1ty FPS card is 136 dB. So don't go telling everyone that 96dB is the best.

5) 192kHz processing is amazing for an amplifier. I would be amazed if the amplifiers from non audio companies like Logitech and Creative had even 24kHz audio processors onboard.

6) Let this be a lesson that you should keep your mouth shut unless you truely know what you are talking about. I hate having to do this!

7) Lastly, this is an open forum where you did not start the thread. So don't be bashing people, and saying it must be user error on their part (implying I'm an idiot). Just because you know something, doesn't mean you know everything.


I do not own this system. I was just pointing it out because it fit the price range and the specs were good. Don't go judging people because they want to be helpful.
Didn't read this thread, so I don't know what got you 2 guys all fired up, but there's a few errors here. I'll fix a couple of them, but probably forget something as well. Anyways, analog speakers don't process sound. Speakers are controlled by an amplier. Also, not sure what you were trying to say about an amplifier using higher voltage. All power supplies are limited to the same 12v input current as anything else plugged into a US household socket. Tweeters do not have the highest power rating, lower frequency drivers do. Lower frequency has higher stored energy and is the reason you'll see monoblock amplifiers designed for high end subwoofers ranging into the kilowatts. As far as power ratings on amplifiers, you need to know alot about electronics to even be able to compare power output. For every 2db of dynamic headroom, the amplifier can effectively double it's rated output capacity as long as the power supply can provide enough current. I won't keep going on and on, but you guys should shake hands and realize this is simply a forum to come and discuss,learn,teach, and just shoot the ***** with fellow computer enthusiasts. No reason to get personal or heated
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post #25 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by sccr64472

Didn't read this thread, so I don't know what got you 2 guys all fired up, but there's a few errors here. I'll fix a couple of them, but probably forget something as well.

Anyways, analog speakers don't process sound. Speakers are controlled by an amplier.

Also, not sure what you were trying to say about an amplifier using higher voltage. All power supplies are limited to the same 12v input current as anything else plugged into a US household socket.

Tweeters do not have the highest power rating, lower frequency drivers do. Lower frequency has higher stored energy and is the reason you'll see monoblock amplifiers designed for high end subwoofers ranging into the kilowatts.

As far as power ratings on amplifiers, you need to know alot about electronics to even be able to compare power output. For every 2db of dynamic headroom, the amplifier can effectively double it's rated output capacity as long as the power supply can provide enough current. I won't keep going on and on, but you guys should shake hands and realize this is simply a forum to come and discuss,learn,teach, and just shoot the shizzle with fellow computer enthusiasts. No reason to get personal or heated
Actually, analog speakers or passive radiators are they are also referred to, to process sound. Because when the electrical pulses reach the coil of the speaker, the structure of the speaker itself changes the sound. A more paper cone will get more bass tones, but won't have the structural integrity that a polymesh cone will. That what I meant by processing sound (not actually decoding it)

You tried to say something to the effect that all items plugged into the wall outlet get the same voltage. You actually said "the same 12v current" which is a total screw up and I realize it is late. But you are getting your currents mixed with your voltages. And there are things called DC to DC converters that all amplifiers use to raise the current output and thus raise the power output to the speakers.

Lower speakers don't store energy, they just require more of it in order to make the same level of sound that tweeters do. Thus it takes less energy for a tweeter to match the sound output of a woofer - decible wise. This is also why when you go to a club, the subs are rattling your chest, not the tweeters.

I would agree with you on the dynamic headroom thing, but the rating is 3dB, not 2 dB...that's a big difference.

And yes, I would shake hands and call it a night, but he had the audacity to call my suggestion a pile of shizzle, and that's not okay in my book. He didn't even take the time to compare his product that he is raving about to the one I suggested. At this point I don't care, I just wish more people would be more receptive, and trust those of us who actually know as opposed to those of us who have an idea.


Also...You best ta check yo'self, befo you wreck yo'self! Foo!

EDIT: The reason they don't put tweeters that can handle identical power in the same speaker as woofers and/or subwoofers is because tweeters rupture eardrums a lot easier than subwoofers. So a 1Kwatt tweeter will produce more sound than a 1Kwatt subwoofer. Trust me, I have 4 15" 1600watt speakers in my DJ rig...DON'T MESS WITH ME!
post #26 of 34
arm wrestle anyone?
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post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomasro
I take major offense to this. You don't even have the slightest bit of knowledge when it comes to sound systems. The only thing you do know is that the one you have is good, and you like it.

Lemme school you a bit:

1) power doesn't mean a thing: you could have 5 watts, you could have 500 watts. but if the speaker can't process the sound effectively, then all you hear is loud static. speakers are the most important thing in any sound system (that may sound obvious now, but just wait). A set of speakers with good crossovers and properly tuned enclosures are worth their weight in gold, even if they don't handle massive amounts of sound. BTW, where did you get 65W/ch and 188W for the sub...it's 100watts all the way around.
The z-5500 does have 188wrms sub and 62wrms for each channel thats why it adds up to 505w read the spec sheet http://www.laaudiofile.com/z5500.html
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post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomasro
Actually, analog speakers or passive radiators are they are also referred to, to process sound. Because when the electrical pulses reach the coil of the speaker, the structure of the speaker itself changes the sound. A more paper cone will get more bass tones, but won't have the structural integrity that a polymesh cone will. That what I meant by processing sound (not actually decoding it)

You tried to say something to the effect that all items plugged into the wall outlet get the same voltage. You actually said "the same 12v current" which is a total screw up and I realize it is late. But you are getting your currents mixed with your voltages. And there are things called DC to DC converters that all amplifiers use to raise the current output and thus raise the power output to the speakers.

Lower speakers don't store energy, they just require more of it in order to make the same level of sound that tweeters do. Thus it takes less energy for a tweeter to match the sound output of a woofer - decible wise. This is also why when you go to a club, the subs are rattling your chest, not the tweeters.

I would agree with you on the dynamic headroom thing, but the rating is 3dB, not 2 dB...that's a big difference.

And yes, I would shake hands and call it a night, but he had the audacity to call my suggestion a pile of shizzle, and that's not okay in my book. He didn't even take the time to compare his product that he is raving about to the one I suggested. At this point I don't care, I just wish more people would be more receptive, and trust those of us who actually know as opposed to those of us who have an idea.


Also...You best ta check yo'self, befo you wreck yo'self! Foo!

EDIT: The reason they don't put tweeters that can handle identical power in the same speaker as woofers and/or subwoofers is because tweeters rupture eardrums a lot easier than subwoofers. So a 1Kwatt tweeter will produce more sound than a 1Kwatt subwoofer. Trust me, I have 4 15" 1600watt speakers in my DJ rig...DON'T MESS WITH ME!
You're getting off track here. You claimed that Onkyo and other budget amplifiers increase the voltage and I was pointing out the fact that no, in fact, they do not. Also, scroll up and read what I said about low frequency. I never claimed that a low frequency driver stores energy, I'm referring to the fact that a low frequency waveform has more stored potential energy than one of higher frequency. (it's simple physics) Again, low frequency drivers can have a far greater power handling capacity than a high frequency driver can. You said in your post that I was incorrect about stating that 2 db of stored energy can double the output rating and said that it was 3db. This is incorrect, it is 2 db. You're thinking of Sound Pressure Level. (3db increase in output is doubling the sound output. Power and Sound do not follow the same formulas) In your post you stated that an analog speaker is referred to as a passive radiator. This is also incorrect. A passive radiator is an unpowered driver that uses the out of phase signal to move the cone. This is a bad speaker design and is only used in budget and commercial builds to increase output. You'll never find this used in high end audio. (wilson audio, revel,etc)
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post #29 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalkobra
Yeah man get the Z-5500s, theyre sitting in my room right behind where i sleep LOL, the box is big and i picked it up, man that sub has to way at least 10-15lbs, i cant wait til christmas !

Eh? My Z5300e box weighs over 30 pounds! You sure it isn't a dud box? LOL!
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post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by sccr64472
You're getting off track here. You claimed that Onkyo and other budget amplifiers increase the voltage and I was pointing out the fact that no, in fact, they do not. Also, scroll up and read what I said about low frequency. I never claimed that a low frequency driver stores energy, I'm referring to the fact that a low frequency waveform has more stored potential energy than one of higher frequency. (it's simple physics) Again, low frequency drivers can have a far greater power handling capacity than a high frequency driver can. You said in your post that I was incorrect about stating that 2 db of stored energy can double the output rating and said that it was 3db. This is incorrect, it is 2 db. You're thinking of Sound Pressure Level. (3db increase in output is doubling the sound output. Power and Sound do not follow the same formulas) In your post you stated that an analog speaker is referred to as a passive radiator. This is also incorrect. A passive radiator is an unpowered driver that uses the out of phase signal to move the cone. This is a bad speaker design and is only used in budget and commercial builds to increase output. You'll never find this used in high end audio. (wilson audio, revel,etc)
good points, and I guess I was confused by your physics discussion about audio and spl. and all speakers are passive radiators, because they are all powered by something at some point. Yes subwoofers have greater potential energy, but they are incredibly inefficient. That's why it takes next to 3 times as much power to get sound equalized in the low end as it does with the high end. the amplifier doesn't increase the voltage, I was talking about how the amp increases the current. That's why a higher current amp sounds best, but has a lower rating. Other budget amps use higher voltage (obviously not more than 120V) to get higher ratings since it is easier to convert amps for volts.

I'm just trying to say, if you want something quality, don't go for the all in one systems that also manufacture game components. Truth of the matter is that they are going to be a bad purchase in the long run. If you go with an Onkyo or Harmon Kardon system, you'll get better sound, more effective power and better utility
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