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post #21 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by xie67
Aaaagh yes physics is a wonderful thing to manipulate but you forget one thing Thermal dynamics !

oh and the fact that theoretical probability's don't always translate to practical real time situations...

cheers
Even thermo dynamics must conform to the laws of science and physics.

It is so impossible to lower temps by simply placing the tubing in a different order that it is beyond reality..I wonder if you could explain EXACTLY how thermo dynamics applies to shifting the tubing from rad first to block first effects a closed loop cooling system..

I can if need be get the formulas to back up my statements,,,But would rather see you show us how 110 watts of heat in a closed loop,keeping all parts identicle will be effected by a simple rerouting of tubing..Remember NO CHANGES can take place . Tube length,diamater,radiaors physical location ect ect . . .

So please by all means show us how thermo dynamics applies to the order of parts in our closed loop.
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post #22 of 41
So what I hear you state is the following:

In a closed loop system placing the radiator after the pump and before the CPU waterblock as opposed to after the CPU waterblock and prior to the pump via maybe a GPU waterblock/res tank/flowmeter etc.

Keeping in mind the flowrate is the same constant.
Given that the ambient temperature remains lower than the system coolant.

That you will not have a lower coolant temperature entering the CPU waterblock if connected the first method pump-CPU-xxx-res tank-pump.

That in the second method the coolant upon leaving the CPU waterblock/GPU waterblock in your tubing passing through the radiator into the tubing and then the tank and transfered to the pump and out the final tube run to the CPU waterblock the coolant temperature will be the same.

No to discredit the laws of physics. But have a look at some realtime situations. I have found through different cofigurations which supplies a lower coolant temperature to the CPU waterblock and am sure there are other members whom have had the same experience.

cheers
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post #23 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by xie67
So what I hear you state is the following:

In a closed loop system placing the radiator after the pump and before the CPU waterblock as opposed to after the CPU waterblock and prior to the pump via maybe a GPU waterblock/res tank/flowmeter etc.

Keeping in mind the flowrate is the same constant.
Given that the ambient temperature remains lower than the system coolant.

That you will not have a lower coolant temperature entering the CPU waterblock if connected the first method pump-CPU-xxx-res tank-pump.

That in the second method the coolant upon leaving the CPU waterblock/GPU waterblock in your tubing passing through the radiator into the tubing and then the tank and transfered to the pump and out the final tube run to the CPU waterblock the coolant temperature will be the same.

No to discredit the laws of physics. But have a look at some realtime situations. I have found through different cofigurations which supplies a lower coolant temperature to the CPU waterblock and am sure there are other members whom have had the same experience.

cheers

YOU can not make a radiator cool better by placing it before or after any part in the loop THIS IS A MYTH..(And anyone that does not use the resivor as a pump supply would shock me LOL)

I am trying to show you without linking to a long test article how simple it is.

110 watts of heat is 110 watts of heat..Do not think for 1 second the water leaving the CPU is 2 or 3c warmer then when it enters because it is not UNLESS YOU stop the flow to let the water heat up

It is a closed LOOP..In constant motion,,That makes certain things constant..One big constant is the amount of heat ADDED to the water..This being constant means the water will reach a constant temp based on absorbtion and disapation..Since water flow and air flow across rad are constant ya can not lower temps by placing the rad before or after the CPU it is quite sensable and simple if ya just keep thinkng in constants.

Simply put the constant amount of heat added to the constant flow added to the constant disapation of the radiator = constant temps no matter where the rad is.110 watts of heat is still 110 watts even if ya set the rad before CPU,,After it ,, or between it and a GPU block,,,

The opnly way putting a radiator before or after any water block can reduce temps is if WE reduce TUBE length and or bends in the tubing which instantly allows for more flow.More flow lower temps.

So the advice of Cooler temps based on rad placement MUST BE BASED on a shorter and less restricted tubing set up..If not where you place it is 100% meaningless. . .100% not sometimes and not others but 100% of the time system x with 2 feet of tubing and 4 bends will not cool at all better if the SAME 4 bends and 2 feet of tubing are used just because the CPU and GPU blocks come before or after the radiator.

It is pretty simple...Think about it hard and remember if all remains constant it dont matter at all what comes before what . . 110 watts must be removed no matter what .
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post #24 of 41
I'm not a water cooler but interested and you guys are amazing
One thing I've wondered...
If you use aluminum tubing, yes it would be a PITA, would it not also disapate some heat further cooling the water where as the plastic tubing contains the heat?
Just a curious
    
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post #25 of 41
quote: [110 watts of heat is 110 watts of heat..Do not think for 1 second the water leaving the CPU is 2 or 3c warmer then when it enters because it is not UNLESS YOU stop the flow to let the water heat up ]

The temperature of the coolant throughout the circuit is not constant ! Try it
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post #26 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Duke
I'm not a water cooler but interested and you guys are amazing
One thing I've wondered...
If you use aluminum tubing, yes it would be a PITA, would it not also disapate some heat further cooling the water where as the plastic tubing contains the heat?
Just a curious
Well in a sense yes it would, you could also increase the surface area of the pipe by soldering/welding fin's to the side of it.

You just gave me an idea, except i'm gonna do it with copper
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post #27 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by xie67
quote: [110 watts of heat is 110 watts of heat..Do not think for 1 second the water leaving the CPU is 2 or 3c warmer then when it enters because it is not UNLESS YOU stop the flow to let the water heat up ]

The temperature of the coolant throughout the circuit is not constant ! Try it

I wish for the subject of debate you would not use 1 liners which provide no educational material for others and show a total lack of willingmess to learn what is a myth and what is not.

I am a member at many overclocking sites,,water cooled for 4.5 years and have seen this Myth debated over and over again..

http://www.overclockers.com/articles1088/

This article is the shortest I could dig up..

Who wants to read 100 pages of thermodynamics LMAO.. I sure dont I have read enough ..

If you can follow the Math you can confirm the results that way , If you can not follow the math as some of us cant the results are explained in laymans terms as well . .

I want to end with this..The easiest weay to plumb the rig with the least amount of tubing and bends IS THE BEST advice that can be given..If that means the RAD goes after pump and before CPU great ,If it means the system is res,pump,gpu,cpu,rad THEN dont worry about it because even mathmatically the difference is a fraction of 1c..


Any one here ever get a better over clock at 37c then at 37.019c ? ? ? ?
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post #28 of 41
Quote:
The simple answer is no matter what order you put things the temps will be the same,,Pump block rad .Pump rad block makes ZERO difference.
I'd like to say FALSE.

It DOES make a difference. How big of ad ifference? VERY VERY SMALL. But it DOES make a differnce so saying "It makes ZERO difference" Is FALSE.

If your saying it makes zero difference your basically saying the pump and cpu generate NO heat. Which is false.

Yes they generate very little heat, and the water may only heat up 0.05c, or 0.2c, but it STILL makes a difference.

Now honestly I say just hook it up in whatever order you feel like. But you cannot possibly say it makes no difference, just say that it makes very small difference that you shoulden't worry about.





Now what im curious about, as everyones saying you need the most pressure over your cpu.. How much of a difference does that make? I mean, more pressure means more cooling, BUT you can look at it from a different stand point... Pressure creates heat, how much heat will 2psi or hwatever our loops are running at create? Maybe only 0.05c, but it STILL is creating some heat. So does the fact you have high pressure going over your block help more then running low pressure? I don't know thats up for discussion..


But the bottom line is if your THAT worried about temperatures, you need a new hobby. .5c will NOT change anything. 5c probably won't yield you a better overclock.

Now building a chiller and getting 30c lower temps will make a difference, probably a very big difference in your overclock.

My $0.02.. And I promise you won't see me wasting time changing my flow pattern up to see a 0.02c drop in temps. Im just fine with 32c full load

Quote:
I want to end with this..The easiest weay to plumb the rig with the least amount of tubing and bends IS THE BEST advice that can be given..If that means the RAD goes after pump and before CPU great ,If it means the system is res,pump,gpu,cpu,rad THEN dont worry about it because even mathmatically the difference is a fraction of 1c..


Any one here ever get a better over clock at 37c then at 37.019c ? ? ? ?
Yes I agree fully here. The easiest way and best looking way to plumb your rig is 100% the best. Don't waste time getting the perfect flow pattern to see 37c over 37.019c
    
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post #29 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towlieee
I'd like to say FALSE.

It DOES make a difference. How big of ad ifference? VERY VERY SMALL. But it DOES make a differnce so saying "It makes ZERO difference" Is FALSE.

If your saying it makes zero difference your basically saying the pump and cpu generate NO heat. Which is false.

Yes I agree fully here. The easiest way and best looking way to plumb your rig is 100% the best. Don't waste time getting the perfect flow pattern to see 37c over 37.019c
It makes no difference clearly in the users ability to overclock or make a rig stable....019c is so close to ZERO that to make the point a difference is made is like saying na na na na I was right LMAO..When in fact the truth that dispells the rad location was what i have been trying to get across all along.

If you read my link,,Clearly it discusses pump heat ..And right off the bat it states with 2 different set up's all that changes is pump location be it before or after rad has no effect on cooling because you have a static amount of heat being introduced to the loop,,Which simply means all components that shed heat,,Pump,cpu,gpu,chip set ect.

So i hope the myth has been dispelled which was all i wanted to do here,,,
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post #30 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by PetrolHead
Well in a sense yes it would, you could also increase the surface area of the pipe by soldering/welding fin's to the side of it.

You just gave me an idea, except i'm gonna do it with copper
I had that in mind too... only with alu/alu.
I think to much , thats why I've not done water yet.
    
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