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post #38251 of 106104
I would say that the UT60 benefits more than just 1C from Push-Pull fans, in fact I'd say it's closer to a good 20% improvement if done well. I am not using fans that are "weak" by any measure, either: Koolance 2600rpm 5.4mmH2O/106CFM monsters on both sides!

However, there are a few things you can do to maximize the benefits of a push-pull setup, in my experience....
- Use the same fans, as having faster fans on one side will reduce the life of the shorter fans if there is any excess of pressure/airflow by causing the slower fan to speed up past what its motor is rated for.
- Putting a shroud on the push fans, at least, specifically something like the Phobya 120/140x7mm Shroud/Decouplers, will reduce the noise a bit as well as help with temps a bit; if you are using shrouds on both sides, I would suggest using a thicker shroud on the Push side and a thinner one on the Pull side
- If not using shrouds, then something like the new XSPC 120/240/360 rad gaskets are an excellent investment, especially at only $2-3/ea; they seal the area between the radiator and fans, preventing the loss of static pressure via air escaping between the fans and the rad
- If using the fans to intake air from outside of the case (which, if your airflow is setup properly, shouldn't make a difference), USE FILTERS! Rads seem to love dust more than just about anything else in a computer, but keep in mind that you will be ADDING to the amount of static pressure needed for the fans! I'd say that if you add a fan filter, you should up your fans' static pressure (i.e. buy more powerful fans) by ~1-1.5mmH2O to be safe.

Slow fans and thick/high-density rads are NOT the only things that benefit from push-pull setups! Just be sure to do it properly, and you'll see a 15-30% gain over a single set of fans (the exact amount varies). thumb.gif
   
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post #38252 of 106104
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKTGX95 View Post

any suggestions / concerns on using push/pull with different fans?

I had this issue when I had (briefly) a Corsair H100. I had 2 x Phobya Nano 2G's from my previous build and wished to use them "push" with the H100 stock fans "pull". I asked advice on the Corsair forum and got pretty much roasted as they quoted "low SP of Phobya's versus stock fans creating imbalance of pressure" etc. Eventually I ploughed ahead and got idle temps of about 30 degrees.In the run up to my "proper" watercooling I removed the "push" Phobyas and replaced them with the stock fans and......the temperature on idle was just the same. If you don't have any existing LED fans I would go with Silverstone Air Penetrators or the new Phobya Eloop NB's if you can get them http://www.aquatuning.us/product_info.php/info/p15212_Phobya-NB-eLoop-1600rpm---Bionic-L-fter-3-Fach-Bundle--3xL-fterpaket-.html
post #38253 of 106104
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinzaC55 View Post

I had this issue when I had (briefly) a Corsair H100. I had 2 x Phobya Nano 2G's from my previous build and wished to use them "push" with the H100 stock fans "pull". I asked advice on the Corsair forum and got pretty much roasted as they quoted "low SP of Phobya's versus stock fans creating imbalance of pressure" etc. Eventually I ploughed ahead and got idle temps of about 30 degrees.In the run up to my "proper" watercooling I removed the "push" Phobyas and replaced them with the stock fans and......the temperature on idle was just the same. If you don't have any existing LED fans I would go with Silverstone Air Penetrators or the new Phobya Eloop NB's if you can get them http://www.aquatuning.us/product_info.php/info/p15212_Phobya-NB-eLoop-1600rpm---Bionic-L-fter-3-Fach-Bundle--3xL-fterpaket-.html

I'm by no means an expert, but having a total of four Silverstone Air Penetrators to my name, I will tell you they are exceptional intake fans...
But that is what they are meant to do; case intake. they aren't designed to either push INTO a rad or PULL out of one, they are made to channel a column of air from the cool room into the case body, per Silverstone's own design claims (and their customer QC responses).
I am sure they will not hurt anything, and will operate just fine, but they are not a "static pressure" type fan, they are a volume-centric design!

Hope I didn't upset the apple cart!

Thanks - T
post #38254 of 106104
A little preview...

System is not powered on i however powered on the led fan the pump and both res.


    
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post #38255 of 106104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrasher1016 View Post



I'm by no means an expert, but having a total of four Silverstone Air Penetrators to my name, I will tell you they are exceptional intake fans...
But that is what they are meant to do; case intake. they aren't designed to either push INTO a rad or PULL out of one, they are made to channel a column of air from the cool room into the case body, per Silverstone's own design claims (and their customer QC responses).
I am sure they will not hurt anything, and will operate just fine, but they are not a "static pressure" type fan, they are a volume-centric design!

Hope I didn't upset the apple cart!

Thanks - T

No apple carts upset here! thumb.gif

However when I was installing the Corsair H100 I toyed with the idea of junking my Phobya's for the SAP's because the latter were so powerful. I'd be interested to hear from someone who has tried them as "push" fans?
post #38256 of 106104
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinzaC55 View Post

No apple carts upset here! thumb.gif

However when I was installing the Corsair H100 I toyed with the idea of junking my Phobya's for the SAP's because the latter were so powerful. I'd be interested to hear from someone who has tried them as "push" fans?

Ok, I broke their rule and tried it at first... redface.gif I put them in pull on my radiator, then push, and maybe it's just me, but I have a feeling they are made to take unbroken air - meaning not passed through a radiator - only... call me crazy, but the flow seemed extremely weak.
I'll try to find old numbers for cooling to see if it really made a difference, but I was temp gunning too, so maybe I wrote it all down. thumb.gif

Thanks - T
post #38257 of 106104
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanstasiu View Post

Yes and it was answered. Be sure to rep those who help you
Damned, how could i miss that? Is there a way to get a "warning" or something when someone quotes me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiCiDAL View Post

You needed to include "Martin's Liquid Lab" at the beginning on that Google expedition - try it and you'll be good to go. biggrin.gif There are a few other sites that have reviews of the UT60 but that's a good place to start. As someone who has a couple of them I can tell you from experience that unless you're going to run your fans <800RPM or you're cooling more than CPU+2 GPUS (in my case 7970's) that the difference is going to be around 1C to your delta... so in other words, it's basically an aesthetic choice. If you're going to run your fans really slow like 600-800RPM in the interest of silence, then I would still say it's definitely unnecessary - but at those speeds the push-pull config will probably improve the delta by closer to 3C because they are pretty thick rads and start out performing their thinner brothers (like the ST30 and XT45) only after the fans hit 1000RPM. However, my two UT60's keep my delta at no more than 8C while benching and 5C under normal gaming and desktop use - and I have them push only with the fans reduced to ~900RPM. smile.gif
Nice! Diddnt see your post, sorry :\
Well, that makes my idea for 240+360 a possible idea! wink.gif
Thanks for the info!
post #38258 of 106104

Hey is my new CM trooper. Got a 420mm rad stuffed in middle behind all the drive bays. 240 in the top. Temps are good for now. 40C on GPU at 1050/1200/1.35v and CPU ~50C stock All while Folding. Sleeved the hoses for fun. Looks good if you ask me. I'm going to try OC'ing, aiming for 4.5ghz and then I'll post back with more temps. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #38259 of 106104
Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

I would say that the UT60 benefits more than just 1C from Push-Pull fans, in fact I'd say it's closer to a good 20% improvement if done well. I am not using fans that are "weak" by any measure, either: Koolance 2600rpm 5.4mmH2O/106CFM monsters on both sides!
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
However, there are a few things you can do to maximize the benefits of a push-pull setup, in my experience....
- Use the same fans, as having faster fans on one side will reduce the life of the shorter fans if there is any excess of pressure/airflow by causing the slower fan to speed up past what its motor is rated for.
- Putting a shroud on the push fans, at least, specifically something like the Phobya 120/140x7mm Shroud/Decouplers, will reduce the noise a bit as well as help with temps a bit; if you are using shrouds on both sides, I would suggest using a thicker shroud on the Push side and a thinner one on the Pull side
- If not using shrouds, then something like the new XSPC 120/240/360 rad gaskets are an excellent investment, especially at only $2-3/ea; they seal the area between the radiator and fans, preventing the loss of static pressure via air escaping between the fans and the rad
- If using the fans to intake air from outside of the case (which, if your airflow is setup properly, shouldn't make a difference), USE FILTERS! Rads seem to love dust more than just about anything else in a computer, but keep in mind that you will be ADDING to the amount of static pressure needed for the fans! I'd say that if you add a fan filter, you should up your fans' static pressure (i.e. buy more powerful fans) by ~1-1.5mmH2O to be safe.
Slow fans and thick/high-density rads are NOT the only things that benefit from push-pull setups! Just be sure to do it properly, and you'll see a 15-30% gain over a single set of fans (the exact amount varies). thumb.gif

Good points and yes I agree with all - however the difference in temps is fully dependent on the load placed on them. It was for that reason that I included my setup specs (at least the blocks) as well as my load and gaming deltas. Naturally, since the case I have is huge and I'm running two UT60 360's - my deltas are pretty low - however if you consider that in my testing I saw only 1C improvement - it actually confirms your statement almost exactly (since on a 5C delta, that is a 20% improvement - right in the middle of your range). smile.gif

Additionally I found a greater improvement as the fan speeds were reduced (the 5C delta during gaming was with push only at 900RPM which I was able to achieve with push pull at 700RPM on each). The problems with such efficient cooling is that it doesn't seem that changes are as effective as they do on a system much closer to it's limits. In my case dropping my delta from 5C to 4C was a large percentage change - but a very small numerical one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokies83 View Post

A little preview...

Is that a SP-BS41-LR I spy on the bookshelf? thumb.gif Best low-budget speaker in a decade right there - although the new release is even better. Andrew is a genius.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiiX View Post

Damned, how could i miss that? Is there a way to get a "warning" or something when someone quotes me?
Nice! Diddnt see your post, sorry :\
Well, that makes my idea for 240+360 a possible idea! wink.gif
Thanks for the info!

No problems - this thread moves quickly - sometimes if you blink there are 3 more pages already queued up. biggrin.gif You should be fine cooling just about anything with those (unless you're going for a quad-GPU setup with an insane OC on both GPUs and CPU. smile.gif The thing I really like about the UT60's is how well they cool at lower fan speeds - while scaling fantastically (which Martin's testing bears out). Although not reaching their potential at my normal fan speeds - they are totally silent. I can hear my pump and raptor much more easily - and I can only hear them with my head against my case. So even though the thinner rads will do a little better at those slower speeds - at anything above 1000RPM the UT60s will really start to shine. I'm totally happy with my temps as they are right now - but I like the fact that if I got a set of AP15's and run them full or went push-pull with my AP13's - I can significantly increase performance for not too much money.
post #38260 of 106104
Are the Swiftech Lok-Seal compression fittings any good? They're a heck of a lot cheaper (only $6ea) than the Bitspower fittings at $9.00 a piece.
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Ace
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