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post #55421 of 107787
lol no norprene. Must be clear. Note the $60 of mayhems fluid thumb.gif
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post #55422 of 107787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

lol no norprene. Must be clear. Note the $60 of mayhems fluid thumb.gif

Note the continual effort to use an H100 modded, where you can easily spend this much money on a custom loop. Fyi wink.gif
post #55423 of 107787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Anyone have feedback on the Phobya Balancer reservoirs? They appear to be the only anondized dark gray reservoirs I've seen (ie they match my Z87X-UD3H motherboard and gray paracording), and got a side outlet on the bottom. Going to be hooking up a 250mm to my H110 clc.
!?!? I don't think this is true... can you post a pic or link?

CLU/Gallium will melt aluminum in seconds, but otherwise it's fine, ie nickel, copper, brass. It will tarnish copper and nickel a little bit, but you can actually scrub off the tarnish easily with the included scrubbing pad (or any scrubber). It can stain after a few months, but who cares. It's far better than anything else on the market, including Ice Diamond 7. You're talking like a 5-10C+ temp gain over the 2nd best paste, and it's far cheaper and more consistent than Indigo.

It definitely does not destroy anything, that just sounds like someone being misinformed...

The Official Delid club is really the best place for CLU (and thermal paste in general) discussion, you have a ton of people in there who use CLU as well as test thermal pastes, and it's got a page comparing thermal paste performance based on user submissions. CLU on average is about 10-15C better then any other paste used there. I personally saw a 15C gain going from PK-3 to CLU, and PK-3 is considered one of the top3 pastes.

Bear in mind, while CLU has never destroyed any chips, Ice Diamond 7 actually has (oh the irony in saying you dont use CLU but use ID7 'to be safe'):
http://www.overclock.net/t/1411528/avoid-ic-diamond-thermal-paste/0_100

The CEO had challenged the community at large to test his paste out and submit results on a public page on the website, and then when people showed poor results as well as ruined components, he accused the community. Real piece of work for a very sub-par and overpriced paste.

Finally, ID7 actually will stain, just like CLU. Please be more informed when you want to trash a company's product, the people of CLU have worked pretty hard to make an excellent product and their customer service is amazing. They sent me a free tube when I had issue and said they must have had a bad batch - they didn't say I docted photos and made it up lol!

I have had CLU harden on my CPU block but even after it hardened on my block the CPU cleaned off cleanly. The key here is that the Die is glass and does not react to the components of CLU. I shied away from using it because after it starts hardening the temps do go up and it is a PITA to remove.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

What are clips?
MX-4 is pretty mediocre as well. Why would you spend $100s on premo water cooling and the very best components, and then use garbage, cheapo thermal paste lol...

You say temps are good, but I promise you a better paste would give you even better temps. There is not a single report of 'destroyed' gear with CLU and it sounds like you are just highly misinformed about thermal pastes. Things have come a long way since the days of DDR2, when MX-4 came out. Hegrease is the best ceramique by far, but PK-3, Masscool, Gelid, and even NH-T1 are muh better choices if you don't want to use CLU or CLP even.

The only possible 'destroying' is electrically conductive pastes, but I don't think anyone's even done that with CLU. With the way it is, it'd be impossible to use 'too much'.

As long as the die that CLU is being applied to is glass there should be no issues. Personally when I moved away from CLU I moved to MX-4 and quite honestly the temp differences are ~1C not significant enough to deal with re applying CLU when it dries out and repolishing the block.
Quote:
Originally Posted by morencyam View Post

I think the liquid metal TIM hardening was more prominent with CLP. In all the reading I've done I've seen only a few cases where CLU hardens as well, but not to the point of damaging the die. Most of the bonding I've seen though was between the IHS and HSF and was fine between die and IHS.

Nickel plated surfaces have a slower reaction with CLU hence why the IHS doesnt normally get damaged in a CLU application. When I was running with the IHS and CLU between the IHS and the die it cleaned super easy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wermad View Post

Well, this was just a few months ago. I asked in the Delid thread and that's when the warnings on CLU came up. SkyNet was very helpful w/ my delid and he also warned me about it and recommended Ice Diamond instead.


If ppl are not having issues, that's good. Again, just sending out a warning from what I was told and pics I saw. The pics shown did have both the die and the gpu cores destroyed after removing the ihs/hsf. I have no clue on what the chemical reaction is but the destruction is enough for me to stay away.

How much is the thermal advantage anyways? Also, noticed its old stuff too tongue.gif (like my Ceramique redface.gif). The Gelid Extreme EK includes is pretty good too, may get some of that. My local Fry's still has some ShinEtzu and that was popular for some time.

IC Diamond is not recommended for use on the die, the diamond particles can create micro scratches on the surface of the die that can turn in to cracks due to the pressure from the block on the die. Cases of this have been documented in the delid thread.

Most of the issues with damaged dies have been with CLP not CLU, the problem with CLU is that temps do start going up once it dries which is what you have to keep your eye on. I delid a chip for a buddy the same time I did my direct die mount and he is still good with CLU the only difference is that his block is nickel plated vs mine is just plain copper.
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post #55424 of 107787
While iv'e heard CLU can dry i'm wondering if extreme temp is what causes it. I just pulled apart my 9 month old 3570k de-lid & the CLU was still very liquid. On the other hand the CLU between the nickel block & IHS was a different story. It looked like the CLU had absorbed into the crappy soft copper of the IHS, but what was on the nickel block was still pretty fluid.

I'm using it again between copper & copper, so we shall see how that goes. I have access to a polishing wheel so i'm not too worried about it.
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post #55425 of 107787
Quote:
You are rapidly making yourself out to be a bit of a fool,no one cares what chip it is or what volts are used,its just a test rig,a baseline control for the test,paste doesnt magically become a better conductor at higher temps,the transfer rate is constant,W/(m·K) doesnt alter.

And cherry picked? Hardly,I just used the first one google threw up. Perhaps the others here that also disagree are cherry picking?

Speak for yourself, god forbid people have a nice conversation around here and have to resort to name calling rolleyes.gif

It matters, when people think that 'thermal pastes dont matter' because they read bad reviews that test stock voltages and near-stock powers, they think there's only a 1C difference between the best and worst paste, and it's simply not true. These same review sites would have you believe water cooling is only a 5-10C difference between air too.

At higher temps, the differences become exaggerated. What's a 3C difference on Tomshardware, is more like a 9-12C difference when you push a high overclock, like 99% of the people in this club are doing. At the very least, the vast majority of OCN'ers and overclockers in general are pushing far harder overclocks than toms or hwsecrets stock voltage overclocks. We aren't paying thousands for custom loops, high end motherboards, all to push stock voltage 10% overclocks, we're pushing the same 4.4-5ghz as most people do with a moderate increase in voltage.

Pick a better thermal paste review. I'm sure you are well aware of the fact that most review sites are garbage and do not do critical reviews that fully explore the products used.

A big problem with thermal paste and heatsink reviews is that they want to put the worst TIM or heatsink on the same page as the best. In the real world, you'd have 60-70C on a custom water loop and a Hyper 212 would be like 150C and just not even usable, but for such a heatsink review, they gotta put them on the same graph so you see a 60-70C Hyper 212 and a 50C custom water loop. That leads people to think things like 'Well water isn't worth it', or 'the hyper 212 aint so bad', but you do a real world overclock on a real world CPU and the difference becomes massive.

I'm not saying test 1.55v on a 4960x, but at least test an i7 at 4.5ghz@1.35v. These hardware reviews really need to be more voltage than real world usage, not less, to fully push this stuff and exaggerate the differences, not less.

The GPU test that TH did is at least useful and relevant, and it's exactly consistent with everything I stated.
Quote:
While iv'e heard CLU can dry i'm wondering if extreme temp is what causes it. I just pulled apart my 9 month old 3570k de-lid & the CLU was still very liquid. On the other hand the CLU between the nickel block & IHS was a different story. It looked like the CLU had absorbed into the crappy soft copper of the IHS, but what was on the nickel block was still pretty fluid.

I think CLU is a mix of liquid (gallium likely) and solids suspending in the solution. I've had tubes dry out and like I couldn't push it all out because all the solids just clump up at the end of the tube. I think it does stain in a bit and that's where some of the liquid goes, but that's also how it gets such a solid contact and works so well.

You can find hegrease right now on PFPC (or xoxide? one of those sites...) for $1.99 for a 1g tube, which is basically a lifetime supply for most users. There's just no excuse to be using something as crappy as MX-4 or AS5 when you can get the best ceramique in the world for only $2.

And CLU for $15, I mean that's literally the best value in cooling anywhere in the world, no where else will $15 go so far and give you such a temp drop. It's just silly for people with $300 cpus, $500 custom loops, etc, to cheap out on thermal paste.
Quote:
As long as the die that CLU is being applied to is glass there should be no issues. Personally when I moved away from CLU I moved to MX-4 and quite honestly the temp differences are ~1C not significant enough to deal with re applying CLU when it dries out and repolishing the block.

What was it being used on and the overclock? If you only saw a 1C difference that sounds more like just not really needing a high end thermal paste in the first place rather then CLU being bad or MX-4 being good. If you run stock clocks or a low overclock then there's no point in getting different paste.
Edited by Belial - 12/17/13 at 1:51pm
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post #55426 of 107787
Quote:
Originally Posted by wermad View Post

Note the continual effort to use an H100 modded, where you can easily spend this much money on a custom loop. Fyi wink.gif

Hehe must have read my mind
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post #55427 of 107787
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wermad View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

lol no norprene. Must be clear. Note the $60 of mayhems fluid thumb.gif

Note the continual effort to use an H100 modded, where you can easily spend this much money on a custom loop. Fyi wink.gif

Z7mO5kr.gif
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post #55428 of 107787
Quote:
Originally Posted by wermad View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

lol no norprene. Must be clear. Note the $60 of mayhems fluid thumb.gif

Note the continual effort to use an H100 modded, where you can easily spend this much money on a custom loop. Fyi wink.gif

I know people around here hate modding and are strongly against trying new things, but this is $150 that on top would have been needed on a custom loop all the same.

$60 is Mayhems, $40 in res, $20 in shipping, $20 in fittings. It'd still be an extra ~$200+ for a basic custom loop.

And like I said, this is an aesthetic mod. I'll consider it a resounding success if I get zero gains in temps, but I predict a 10C temp drop. I dont know why people are so dang unsupportive, a custom loop using Mayhems fluids, the same res, and fittings, would've cost over $350, I've only spent $90 + 150 = 240 vs 350.
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Haswell i7-4770K 4.8GHz@1.452v/1.97vRIN Gigabyte Z87X-UD3H Older Gigabyte 7950 (H60 Mod) 2x4GB Gskill 2400CL11 Hynix CFRs 
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Bitfenix Shinobi Modded CM Storm Spawn Steelseries Diablo 3 2 set CD Speaker + Big Sub 
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Bitfenix Recon Fan Controller Moded 
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Hax'd W7 Ultimate 64-bit Sanyo DP19640 19'' KDS Radius Rad-7xp 17'' Ducky 1087 MX Brown 10keyless 
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Rosewill Capstone 550w Modular NZXT Source 210 w/Modded Window Razer Deathadder 3.5G Steelseries Blizzcon D3 
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Phillips FW-C250 2 Speaker Set w/3 CD Changer JBL Sub 6 Subwoofer NZXT Sleeved LED Strip 1m Blue NZXT Sentry 2 Fan Controller 
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Colonial Blue Paracord Sleeving 
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Phenom ii X4 955C2, $31, 5 broken pins, works! ... Biostar A770e3 6.3 Red&Black MSI GTX 460 768mb Twin Frozr II 2 x 2GB Kingston HyperX 1333 OC to 1348CL7@1.65v 
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Intel X25-M G2 80GB SSD NH-D14 SE2011 6 x Case Fans (4 x YL-M, NZXT case fan, CM Hype... Jerryrigged Chipset-Northbridge 80mm HSF 
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Jerryrigged VRM Heatsink (sawed off stock AM2 h... Hax'd W7 Ultimate 64bit Sanyo DP19640 19"1360x768 Ducky Cherry Browns 10keyless 
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Build In Progress
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Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 830 128gb Corsair H110 w/4x 140mm Yate Loon High Blues W7 x64 Ultimate Yarrgh Matey Dell U2312HM Matte IPS 1080p 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Sanyo DP19640 18.5" 768p KDS Rad-7xp 1024p CM Storm Quickfire Rapids Brown Rosewill Capstone 750 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Bitfenix Shinobi Modded CM Storm Spawn Steelseries Diablo 3 2 set CD Speaker + Big Sub 
Other
Bitfenix Recon Fan Controller Moded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Delidded i7-3770K 5GHz@1.499 Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H 1.1 Sapphire Dual-X 7950 3L Boost 4x2GB Mushkin Ridgeback 2200mhz 8/11/8/27 1.75v... 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Intel X25-M 80GB SSD NH-D14 SE2011 Noctua 120/140/140 Fans 3 x Yate Loon Mediums (Petras) 2 x NZXT Havik 140mm Fans 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Hax'd W7 Ultimate 64-bit Sanyo DP19640 19'' KDS Radius Rad-7xp 17'' Ducky 1087 MX Brown 10keyless 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Rosewill Capstone 550w Modular NZXT Source 210 w/Modded Window Razer Deathadder 3.5G Steelseries Blizzcon D3 
AudioAudioOtherOther
Phillips FW-C250 2 Speaker Set w/3 CD Changer JBL Sub 6 Subwoofer NZXT Sleeved LED Strip 1m Blue NZXT Sentry 2 Fan Controller 
Other
Colonial Blue Paracord Sleeving 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom ii X4 955C2, $31, 5 broken pins, works! ... Biostar A770e3 6.3 Red&Black MSI GTX 460 768mb Twin Frozr II 2 x 2GB Kingston HyperX 1333 OC to 1348CL7@1.65v 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Intel X25-M G2 80GB SSD NH-D14 SE2011 6 x Case Fans (4 x YL-M, NZXT case fan, CM Hype... Jerryrigged Chipset-Northbridge 80mm HSF 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Jerryrigged VRM Heatsink (sawed off stock AM2 h... Hax'd W7 Ultimate 64bit Sanyo DP19640 19"1360x768 Ducky Cherry Browns 10keyless 
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post #55429 of 107787
The biggest issue I see with CLU is the user. They stick half of a tube on the CPU IHS.... When really they should be using 3CC @ most. I just used the leakage from inside the cap to do 2x titan cores.
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IT'S WHITE
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4930k Rampage iv extreme Black Edition GTX Titan  GTX Titan 
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Asus External Blue Ray drive 4x 480x60mm Swiftech MCP35x2 Win 8.1.2 
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post #55430 of 107787
Didn't realize that difference between Primochill 16/10 and 16/11 is that noticeable. Looks like 16/10 is not excatly 10 ID but 9.5 maybe
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