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post #55441 of 107736
Quote:
Originally Posted by pc-illiterate View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

I know people around here hate modding and are strongly against trying new things, but this is $150 that on top would have been needed on a custom loop all the same.

$60 is Mayhems, $40 in res, $20 in shipping, $20 in fittings. It'd still be an extra ~$200+ for a basic custom loop.

And like I said, this is an aesthetic mod. I'll consider it a resounding success if I get zero gains in temps, but I predict a 10C temp drop. I dont know why people are so dang unsupportive, a custom loop using Mayhems fluids, the same res, and fittings, would've cost over $350, I've only spent $90 + 150 = 240 vs 350.

XSPC Raystorm Extreme Universal CPU Watercooling Kit w/ EX280 Radiator/750 Pump/Res XSPC $169.99
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_202_972&products_id=38685

cheaper and better than your mod that isnt going to net you much in temp drops as you believe. once the liquid in the loop heats up, youll have almost the same temps.

Add $60 for Mayhems fluid, $20 for fittings, $20 for tubing, $20 in shipping, $40 for a tube res because I dont want a bay res, and its no longer a better deal. It becomes $90 + 160 vs $170 + 160, suddenly not a great deal.

Please, I know some people here just hate modding and taking things apart but I never said this was a recommendable mod, it's something to do as a fun mod that has to do with a DIY, low cost theme of my build. If I was using a 240mm CLC @ $40 itd be even cheaper.
Edited by Belial - 12/17/13 at 3:39pm
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post #55442 of 107736
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickg1 View Post

What would you choose between the EK-DDC 3.25 X-RES 140 and the EK-D5 Vario X-RES 140

The D5 is the better pump but it seems awkward to mount. This is a variable speed pump right? Wouldn't the speed switch be located directly under the pump? That could be annoying.

Neither. I would get the DDC 3.2 PWM.

The D5 isn't nessessarily the better pump. It is the quieter pump at full speed. DDCs are more powerful and definitely smaller. But @ full speed they are considerably louder. However if you buy the PWM version you can easily control the speed of the pump via a motherboard header or PWM fan controller.
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post #55443 of 107736
Quote:
Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Quote:
You are rapidly making yourself out to be a bit of a fool,no one cares what chip it is or what volts are used,its just a test rig,a baseline control for the test,paste doesnt magically become a better conductor at higher temps,the transfer rate is constant,W/(m·K) doesnt alter.

And cherry picked? Hardly,I just used the first one google threw up. Perhaps the others here that also disagree are cherry picking?

Speak for yourself, god forbid people have a nice conversation around here and have to resort to name calling rolleyes.gif

It matters, when people think that 'thermal pastes dont matter' because they read bad reviews that test stock voltages and near-stock powers, they think there's only a 1C difference between the best and worst paste, and it's simply not true. These same review sites would have you believe water cooling is only a 5-10C difference between air too.

At higher temps, the differences become exaggerated. What's a 3C difference on Tomshardware, is more like a 9-12C difference when you push a high overclock, like 99% of the people in this club are doing. At the very least, the vast majority of OCN'ers and overclockers in general are pushing far harder overclocks than toms or hwsecrets stock voltage overclocks. We aren't paying thousands for custom loops, high end motherboards, all to push stock voltage 10% overclocks, we're pushing the same 4.4-5ghz as most people do with a moderate increase in voltage.

Pick a better thermal paste review. I'm sure you are well aware of the fact that most review sites are garbage and do not do critical reviews that fully explore the products used.

A big problem with thermal paste and heatsink reviews is that they want to put the worst TIM or heatsink on the same page as the best. In the real world, you'd have 60-70C on a custom water loop and a Hyper 212 would be like 150C and just not even usable, but for such a heatsink review, they gotta put them on the same graph so you see a 60-70C Hyper 212 and a 50C custom water loop. That leads people to think things like 'Well water isn't worth it', or 'the hyper 212 aint so bad', but you do a real world overclock on a real world CPU and the difference becomes massive.

I'm not saying test 1.55v on a 4960x, but at least test an i7 at 4.5ghz@1.35v. These hardware reviews really need to be more voltage than real world usage, not less, to fully push this stuff and exaggerate the differences, not less.

The GPU test that TH did is at least useful and relevant, and it's exactly consistent with everything I stated.
Quote:
While iv'e heard CLU can dry i'm wondering if extreme temp is what causes it. I just pulled apart my 9 month old 3570k de-lid & the CLU was still very liquid. On the other hand the CLU between the nickel block & IHS was a different story. It looked like the CLU had absorbed into the crappy soft copper of the IHS, but what was on the nickel block was still pretty fluid.

I think CLU is a mix of liquid (gallium likely) and solids suspending in the solution. I've had tubes dry out and like I couldn't push it all out because all the solids just clump up at the end of the tube. I think it does stain in a bit and that's where some of the liquid goes, but that's also how it gets such a solid contact and works so well.

You can find hegrease right now on PFPC (or xoxide? one of those sites...) for $1.99 for a 1g tube, which is basically a lifetime supply for most users. There's just no excuse to be using something as crappy as MX-4 or AS5 when you can get the best ceramique in the world for only $2.

And CLU for $15, I mean that's literally the best value in cooling anywhere in the world, no where else will $15 go so far and give you such a temp drop. It's just silly for people with $300 cpus, $500 custom loops, etc, to cheap out on thermal paste.
Quote:
As long as the die that CLU is being applied to is glass there should be no issues. Personally when I moved away from CLU I moved to MX-4 and quite honestly the temp differences are ~1C not significant enough to deal with re applying CLU when it dries out and repolishing the block.

What was it being used on and the overclock? If you only saw a 1C difference that sounds more like just not really needing a high end thermal paste in the first place rather then CLU being bad or MX-4 being good. If you run stock clocks or a low overclock then there's no point in getting different paste.

Proof of these claims you make? I see a lot of assumptions but no actual evidence to support your claims. I dont see any difference beyond 2c between the pastes i have used,that includes MX2 and Gelid Extreme. This is with a pair 4.1 westmere hexacore at 1.33v. Not the coolest running chips in the world and i see nothing to support this exaggeration of temp differences with an overclock. And certainly not in the 9-12c bracket as you claim.

If that fluid is Pastel and you bought into the nanofluid rubbish...then boy are you in for a shock....
If performance is what you are interested in then why are you dumping that junk in to your loop?

Even the delid club dont recommend the use of CLU or CLP as a block/CPU material.

Performance is NOT what I am after, I am after aesthetics.

If you are running a higher temp, you see more dramatic differences. An example is any heatsink or TIM review of idle vs load temps, or that TH review of GPU vs CPU. I dont know if you are being facetious or not but I think you are joking.

When on water, temps are so low that differences like TIM arent as big. When running in higher temp ranges, differences in heat dissipation performance become larger.

Your being quite hostile so you can have the last word, I do not want to discuss things publicly with someone so hot headed. If you want, I'll PM a response to your last word. I apologize if I have made you upset or said anything to offend you, I believe that discussing disagreements benefits everyone and should be enjoyable, not stressful.

Of course, I'm always the guy to talk politics at the christmas dinner table so thats just who I am thumb.gif

The delid club does recommend CLU, and its obviois on the results table (CLU/CLP averages 20-30c temp drop, ceramiques only 5-15c). I know my temps dropped an additional 15C when I replaced my delid's PK3/PK3 with CLU/CLU, I actually was the loudest anti-CLU for the longest time in the Delid club but I was proven wrong.

$15 for a 2C temp drop is an average gain for $15, 5C is amazing, and anything more is pretty much a miracle. Thats huge for just changing TIM. Again, at lower overclocks or at lower temp ranges, differences really arent as large as in the higher temp ranges, ie custom water is a good 10-20c better then high end air, but on a low oc on low heat, 60C air would only be 50-55C on water.
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post #55444 of 107736
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfat View Post

Neither. I would get the DDC 3.2 PWM.

The D5 isn't nessessarily the better pump. It is the quieter pump at full speed. DDCs are more powerful and definitely smaller. But @ full speed they are considerably louder. However if you buy the PWM version you can easily control the speed of the pump via a motherboard header or PWM fan controller.

Okay so this is the kit I want on my parts list then correct? EK-DDC 3.2 PWM X-RES 140

For clarification, I can control the speed of the pump via the motherboard sys_fan header speed? Does it have to be a PWM header? (I think my only one is the CPU and it would be far away)

Motherboard for this pump will be a MSI Z77 Mpower.

Thanks in advance.
post #55445 of 107736
Gotta love this thread...................................
post #55446 of 107736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

~ snip~

Performance is NOT what I am after, I am after aesthetics.

~snip~

You can put lipstick on a sow, and polish a turd forever . . . . . . .

It's still just a pig & sxit

You've spammed so many threads with your belligerence I've lost count.

I doubt I'm alone in that sentiment . . . .


Darlene
post #55447 of 107736
Quote:
Originally Posted by IT Diva View Post

You can put lipstick on a sow, and polish a turd forever . . . . . . .

It's still just a pig & sxit

You've spammed so many threads with your belligerence I've lost count.

I doubt I'm alone in that sentiment . . . .


Darlene

LMAO!! laughingsmiley.gif
post #55448 of 107736
Quote:
Originally Posted by IT Diva View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

~ snip~

Performance is NOT what I am after, I am after aesthetics.

~snip~

You can put lipstick on a sow, and polish a turd forever . . . . . . .

It's still just a pig & sxit

You've spammed so many threads with your belligerence I've lost count.

I doubt I'm alone in that sentiment . . . .


Darlene

As long as it no longer looks like a pigturd I'll consider it a resounding success. Thanks for your support thumb.gif

It's surprising how much people are unsupportive of modding here. No belligerence here, only others who's getting angry that I want to mod my CLC. It's been done many times in the past, always successfully. I just want to change the tubing, fluid, and add a res. I'm not looking for a huge gain here, this mod is entirely an afterthought, and not the focus of my robotics-centered, DIY themed budget build.

Vote for me on OCN Mod of the Month, I will definitely win with my modded build with custom acrylic work, an automated side panel, and LCD voltmeters run off a customized small form factor UPS.
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post #55449 of 107736
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickg1 View Post

Okay so this is the kit I want on my parts list then correct? EK-DDC 3.2 PWM X-RES 140

For clarification, I can control the speed of the pump via the motherboard sys_fan header speed? Does it have to be a PWM header? (I think my only one is the CPU and it would be far away)

Motherboard for this pump will be a MSI Z77 Mpower.

Thanks in advance.

That is the one I would buy. It would have to be a real PWM header. You'd also need to make sure that Speedfan works w/ your motherboard OR your motherboard comes w/ software that allows you to control the fan speeds yourself.
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Big Lian Li
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Forever Alone
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post #55450 of 107736
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IT'S WHITE
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IT'S WHITE
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