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post #74341 of 106462
Hi,

Loving all the cool pictures here.
I once posted my first watercooling attempt here an just wanted to post some pictures of what I've done with my PC since then.

Before: (in ancient times)

PICT1673


After:(most of it about 3 years ago)







This way I want to say goodbye to my computer, you have served me well, I will miss you :-(

I decided to go a little BIGGER, I'm going for a Phanteks enthoo primo, a gtx 970 and probably the X99 platform.
Hopefully this time I can put all the WC-stuff inside the case :-)

And of course when my new PC is ready I'll post some pics


Thanks,

Jo
    
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post #74342 of 106462
Hi,

I am quite new to this forum and i like to see here tons of pictures OF WATERCOOLED systems. Personally I have 3 of my 4 systems under water and arranged my systems new nearly every week.
Edited by downforce - 10/18/14 at 3:22pm
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post #74343 of 106462
Quote:
Originally Posted by downforce View Post

Hi,

I am quite new to this forum and i like to see here tons of pictures OF WATERCOOLED systems. Personally I have 3 of my 4 Systems under water and arranged my the sytems new nearly every week, so be Kind to me.

i believe the german modding community is one of the biggest in the world... Welcome to OCN mate... smile.gif show us what you got biggrin.gif
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post #74344 of 106462
Quote:
Originally Posted by geggeg View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCautiousOne View Post

Keep yall in the loop or the HDD's in the loop lmao. I will. 70$ x 2 is around what I don't want to spend on this but I just might to be ridiculous. biggrin.gif

Well that definitely will be ridiculous alright biggrin.gif

I just had my first Gentle Typhoon experience thanks to @hiarc and all I can say at this time without proper testing is- Wow!

Quote:
Originally Posted by geggeg View Post

Nothing happened, just pleasantly surprised how quiet it is and yet manages to push out the amount of air it can. The eloops get close but are definitely a bit louder.


Being the nerd that I am, and knowing you're a scientific type as well, . . . I have to ask what methodology you're using to make that determination about how much air is being "pushed out", and under what flow conditions, free flow for example, were you evaluating to make that determination.

We both know that in physics, or in reality in general, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

The GTs have a power draw of draw of less than 1W, while most fans of similar specs have ratings in the 2 to 5W range . . . I have difficulty believing they all deliver similarly on their ratings.


How about setting up a simple test scenario like I did, where you just look at how much air flows thru a couple representative rads using the GT's and several other similar speed fans with different power draw specs.

There's so much confirmation bias attached the GTs for watercooling, that to say anything irreverent about them is tantamount to heresy.

I think you'll find that the biggest reason they seem so quiet is not because they have found the holy grail of magic blade design, but because they just don't move enough air to be as noisy as most of the other choices.


And while I'm rambling on and being generally critical, . . . when you do the rad tests, how about doing some relative airflow testing of the various RPM fans you use . . . .

There was quite a number of posts recently where posters were extoling the RPM range that one rad seemed to become more desirable over another, (monsta vs UT60) . .

But having thought about that, that discussion was all totally meaningless, as the actual determining factor was the airflow, not the frikken fan speed. . .

The pics I posted demonstrate that reality; If I had done rad tests with ~2200 rpm fans, and used the Corsairs on one rad and the Silverstones on another, the results would have shown that whatever rad the Silverstones were on would have been Much Better performing than the one the Corsairs were on . . .

And it would have been a False conclusion . . . the rad itself could have been considerably worse than the one with the corsairs, but the massive difference in airflow between the fan makes would have hidden that, if you did not know in advance that the difference in airflow rates was so great.

It's just absolutely foolish to do rad testing based on various fan rpms, instead of doing the testing at various established air flow rates thru the rad.

[/rant]

Darlene
post #74345 of 106462
You mean something like this:





The statement with the GT vs eloop was based on a quick free flowing measurement because I had just received them, but was measured via an Extech anemometer at the same distance from the fans, like how it was with the fan/rad combo above. All the above results will likely vary from fan to fan, but this is for a rad comparison so I used the same 120mm fan on the 480s and the same 140mm fan on the 560s.
post #74346 of 106462
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCautiousOne View Post

how bout operating temps? Whats the difference with and without the HDD Cooler?

Thanks. The Cautious ONe

+ Rep for the follow up

No clue mate. Haven't placed in use yet. My SMA8 build is ongoing and the HD will be the last thing on it...thumb.gif
post #74347 of 106462
Quote:
Originally Posted by geggeg View Post

You mean something like this:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)



The statement with the GT vs eloop was based on a quick free flowing measurement because I had just received them, but was measured via an Extech anemometer at the same distance from the fans, like how it was with the fan/rad combo above. All the above results will likely vary from fan to fan, but this is for a rad comparison so I used the same 120mm fan on the 480s and the same 140mm fan on the 560s.

On your charts, the FPM scale . . . is that meant to be CFM or just really a fpm velocity reading,

Realistically, it can't be CFM, as even if it was cumulative for 4 fans, it's still beyond reason.

About 110 cfm is as good as it gets for a 25mm thick fan in the 2200+ rpm range . . and that's with no loading.

If it's a velocity scale, then it doesn't really mean much, the charts give nothing more than the relative restrictiveness of the fin configuration.

Without having actual heat dissipated numbers at actual CFM airflow rates, the tests become just relative to each other, but don't offer information that's applicable outside your tests.


Having charts that show X Watts dissipated at say 10 or 20 scfm increments from 20 to 200 scfm of airflow, and at a standard ambient temp, is the only way to actually compare rads, without the fan contributing greatly to the results and making them suspect at best.

To evaluate rads, in a way that can be of use to others who can't test on their own, you need to know Watts dissipated and actual airflow, so as to eliminate the huge variable of fan performance from skewing the results.

If you want to then later determine what fans can get you what airflow levels, then that's an entirely different investigation to pursue.

The one thing I learned so indelibly from the bit of testing that I did . . was that you can't judge a fan by it's specs or its RPM . .

You have to evaluate it in the mode in which it's going to be employed.

Darlene
post #74348 of 106462
That is FPM, not CFM. I am with you on showing how rads dissipate heat with airflow but that means nothing to the average user because they control temps by fan rpm. Of course these are meant to be relative tests, doing watts dissipated is based on a constant delta T (loop - ambient) value as well which is not realistic either.

The way I have it now for the thermal tests (something requested by users and manufacturers alike) is delta T vs fan rpm. It will be a relative performance test, including the Air restriction and liquid restriction numbers because everything is relative- exact fittings used, ambient temps, fan used, control used, load applied, components used for the load and so on.

The watts dissipated vs FPM (CFM again depends on the duct size, distance between the duct and fan, distance between the duct and the anemometer) is what I will try to get done for a separate section. But I don't see that being representative of the mode it is going to be employed. Am I mistaken here? I am all for learning and improving here so it's a genuine question.

Edit: Doing watts dissipated or even delta T vs FPM/CFM also means having a library of FPM/CFM vs RPM for several fans to make it translate into useful data for people in my opinion. Again going back to the whole people using temps vs RPM in practice.
Edited by geggeg - 10/18/14 at 5:32pm
post #74349 of 106462
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCautiousOne View Post

Ok then. I have moved most of my airflow in a push or pull for my Rads... Can anyone tell me why I am considering watercooling my HDD's with a bitspower hdd waterblock?

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17144/ex-blc-1333/Bitspower_HDD_Acrylic_Liquid_Cooling_Block_-_Clear_BP-HDS350AC-CL.html?tl=g30c203&id=c2s5m5GJ

Someone has to have done this already.. Pics? thumb.gif My temps on hwmonitor for my HDD is 40c (while gaming, drops to 38c during normal op)

The Cautious One tongue.gif

Actually, I do plan on WC'ing my HDDs' as well. Just makes sense for my build because the HDD cage is coming out and the RAID is moving into the bottom of the 5.25 Bay. I'm considering the Koolance dual HDD system or the Watercool SILENT star Dual setup. More likely the WC unit so I can keep everything at one end and I won't have to mix anything to insulate the spindle and boards and block the power/data ports. My lower two 5.25 bays are open so it would be the best idea since sliced bread. smile.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif
 
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post #74350 of 106462
Quote:
Originally Posted by geggeg View Post

That is FPM, not CFM. I am with you on showing how rads dissipate heat with airflow but that means nothing to the average user because they control temps by fan rpm. Of course these are meant to be relative tests, doing watts dissipated is based on a constant delta T (loop - ambient) value as well which is not realistic either.

The way I have it now for the thermal tests (something requested by users and manufacturers alike) is delta T vs fan rpm. It will be a relative performance test, including the Air restriction and liquid restriction numbers because everything is relative- exact fittings used, ambient temps, fan used, control used, load applied, components used for the load and so on.

The watts dissipated vs FPM (CFM again depends on the duct size, distance between the duct and fan, distance between the duct and the anemometer) is what I will try to get done for a separate section. But I don't see that being representative of the mode it is going to be employed. Am I mistaken here? I am all for learning and improving here so it's a genuine question.


That to me, is a big problem . . . . . . Fan RPM is irrelevant to getting truly useful data.

If I had done that kind of testing with the rather lame Corsair SPs, I would have gotten much higher Dt's than if I'd used the Silverstones, both of which are the same RPM.

It would have been more harmful than good if I'd used the Silverstones and posted great results, and then others went and used the same rad but saved money and got the SP's, since the RPM was the charted variable, and got the sucky results that would have come with them.

If I could do rad testing where I had a controllable fan setup with mass airflow sensors, air straightening plenums for each size rad, and could therefor chart the Dt's at known CFM points for specific heat loads, I'd have data that was actually useful. . . . .

In truth, I doubt that there's enough difference in todays rads to come close to justifying such a setup, at least outside of academic curiosity, . . . guys buy based on: price, features, build quality, perceived value, or usually some combination thereof.

The temps guys are getting are way more impacted by the fans and overall airflow characteristics of their setup, than the brand of rad they use.
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