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post #3321 of 3943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul17041993 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

Last gen at least Lightnings had 4x DP. This gen, for some bizarre reason they have moved away from that tradition. Same with Asus DCUII that had 4x DP in previous gens and has only one this gen.

because having an internal DP hub to split it simply isn't worth it when the end user can just get whatever hubs or daisy displays they want...

you can still run all 6 displays out the one DP if you wanted, provided it doesn't eat more then the 17.28Gbps of DP1.2, could be even possible that the port supports the upcoming DP1.3 that goes to ~32Gbps just from a BIOS update...

FYI 4K, 30bpp, 60Hz, CVT-R blanking uses only 16Gbps.

is that what the 7970 DC2 with 4 DP is? a built in MST hub? could I do eyefinity on it without active adapters to non-DP monitors? My second card is a DC2, I just never bothered because eyefinity was already working on the TF3
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post #3322 of 3943
Quote:
Originally Posted by inedenimadam View Post

is that what the 7970 DC2 with 4 DP is? a built in MST hub? could I do eyefinity on it without active adapters to non-DP monitors? My second card is a DC2, I just never bothered because eyefinity was already working on the TF3

pretty sure they don't have the DVI clock gens, too costly and takes too much space I guess...
   
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post #3323 of 3943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul17041993 View Post

pretty sure they don't have the DVI clock gens, too costly and takes too much space I guess...



thanks for the reply, I was afraid of that. I also just emailed ASUS to get an official sort of answer. I think it might be time to just bite the bullet and get a hub
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post #3324 of 3943
Quote:
Originally Posted by inedenimadam View Post

is that what the 7970 DC2 with 4 DP is? a built in MST hub? could I do eyefinity on it without active adapters to non-DP monitors? My second card is a DC2, I just never bothered because eyefinity was already working on the TF3
No. AMd cards have 6 display streams and two built in clock generators which are needed for the "legacy" standards (DVI, VGA and their derivatives like HDMI) so on 7xxx series and below you still need active adabpter for 3+ dispalys in most cards (other than Sapphire FleX which has built in active adapter si this can do 3 without DP). Whi is mixing Legacy and DP a problem - it is because of screen tearing which can but does not need to happen in the presence of mixed outputs. That is the main reason to desire a all-dispalyports card even if you are not bandwidth limited (say, running 5x 1080p eyefinity).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul17041993 View Post

because having an internal DP hub to split it simply isn't worth it when the end user can just get whatever hubs or daisy displays they want...

you can still run all 6 displays out the one DP if you wanted, provided it doesn't eat more then the 17.28Gbps of DP1.2, could be even possible that the port supports the upcoming DP1.3 that goes to ~32Gbps just from a BIOS update...

FYI 4K, 30bpp, 60Hz, CVT-R blanking uses only 16Gbps.

But bandwidth IS an issue in here. None of the current gen top end cards can do even 3x 4K eyefinity at 60 Hz not to mention anything above. And if you can afford quad DCUII or Lighting having 3x or more 4K displays is not all that huge stretch all the sudden anymore. They are already approx 700 per displays and I would expect the prices drop even further by the end of the year. And with this in my opinion retarded output port configuration all you can do is one puny 4K display on a card that could, in theory, be capable of driving more. Especially in non-gaming scenarios I can see situations where I would like to drive 3 or more 4K screens but do not need the additional features of the FirePro. So atm best one can do in that regard is getting a 7870 eyefinity 6 card, which while nice card has only 2 GB ov vRAM which does not quite cut it at 3x 4K displays, minimum I would like for 3x 4K would be 3 GB (extrapolating from my past experience of running resolutions above 4K with various amount of vRAM).

Edit: as far as BIOS update goes most manufacturers, as far as I'm aware void your warranty if you flash your cards BIOS. For some reason they really really do not want their "average consumer" messing with the BIOS on the card. Also I am not all that sure that full step up to DP 1.3 can be achieved without hardware changes but not entirely sure about that. It's just that this setp up is pretty huge. Granted something like that has happened in the past where one could "upgrade" their 5770 which had only HDMI 1.3 into supporting HDMI 1.4a by flashing it with 6770 BIOS.
Edited by Carniflex - 3/22/14 at 11:04pm
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post #3325 of 3943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

No. AMd cards have 6 display streams and two built in clock generators which are needed for the "legacy" standards (DVI, VGA and their derivatives like HDMI) so on 7xxx series and below you still need active adabpter for 3+ dispalys in most cards (other than Sapphire FleX which has built in active adapter si this can do 3 without DP). Whi is mixing Legacy and DP a problem - it is because of screen tearing which can but does not need to happen in the presence of mixed outputs. That is the main reason to desire a all-dispalyports card even if you are not bandwidth limited (say, running 5x 1080p eyefinity).
But bandwidth IS an issue in here. None of the current gen top end cards can do even 3x 4K eyefinity at 60 Hz not to mention anything above. And if you can afford quad DCUII or Lighting having 3x or more 4K displays is not all that huge stretch all the sudden anymore. They are already approx 700 per displays and I would expect the prices drop even further by the end of the year. And with this in my opinion retarded output port configuration all you can do is one puny 4K display on a card that could, in theory, be capable of driving more. Especially in non-gaming scenarios I can see situations where I would like to drive 3 or more 4K screens but do not need the additional features of the FirePro. So atm best one can do in that regard is getting a 7870 eyefinity 6 card, which while nice card has only 2 GB ov vRAM which does not quite cut it at 3x 4K displays, minimum I would like for 3x 4K would be 3 GB (extrapolating from my past experience of running resolutions above 4K with various amount of vRAM).

yes the controller has 6 streams, that's how you can run up to 6 off one card whereas older cards and nvidia only can do 3-4, same applies to the APUs and intel chips as they only have 2-4, depending on the arch. you still need to split out the DP signal however, AMD even specifies this in a sense; "Up to 6 displays supported with DisplayPort 1.2 Multi-Stream Transport"

could be possible that they have a sneaky trick in the 290/Xs that the two DP signals are actually in the same port, and could be unlocked via BIOS, HOWEVER, this isn't confirmed at all, just a theory, we would have to wait for DP1.3 spec to be official first. (some time this quarter)

3x4K definitely isn't possible on these cards however, 2x4K would even be questionable, you're simply overburdening your memory, PCIe and controllers something awful...
(3*4K, 128bit float RGBA buffer already takes ~398MB, a lot of engines use as much as 4-8 of these, not even 8GB memory is really enough...)
Edited by Paul17041993 - 3/22/14 at 11:13pm
   
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post #3326 of 3943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul17041993 View Post

yes the controller has 6 streams, that's how you can run up to 6 off one card whereas older cards and nvidia only can do 3-4, same applies to the APUs and intel chips as they only have 2-4, depending on the arch. you still need to split out the DP signal however, AMD even specifies this in a sense; "Up to 6 displays supported with DisplayPort 1.2 Multi-Stream Transport"

could be possible that they have a sneaky trick in the 290/Xs that the two DP signals are actually in the same port, and could be unlocked via BIOS, HOWEVER, this isn't confirmed at all, just a theory, we would have to wait for DP1.3 spec to be official first. (some time this quarter)

3x4K definitely isn't possible on these cards however, 2x4K would even be questionable, you're simply overburdening your memory, PCIe and controllers something awful...
(3*4K, 128bit float RGBA buffer already takes ~398MB, a lot of engines use as much as 4-8 of these, not even 8GB memory is really enough...)

In the past AMD (or more precisely I should say third parties using non-reference design) have had no problems putting 5 to 6 of their display streams exposed as actual physical display-ports per card. Both DP 1.1a (I have XFX 6770 eyefinity 5 version with 5x mini DP) and DP 1.2 (I have Club3D 7870 Eyefinity 6 version with 6x mini DP). Up to 6 displays per single DP is not very helpful as one would be limited to either ~30 Hz at 1080p or ~60 Hz at 720p if wanting to do 6 of them through a single DP 1.2a.

The reason why I find it highly unlikely that only BIOS update would cut it for going from 1.2 to 1.3 is that it almost doubles the bandwidth by doing stuff with the actual signal. When HDMI 1.3 could be "upgraded" to HDMI 1.4a with just a BIOS flash the bandwidth remained the same, what HDMI 1.4a added was bunch of additional display formats support, most of which were optional parts of the standard. As the DP port pins have been clearly defined (all 20 of them) you can't just "sneak in" extra 4 links into the port somehow that could somehow automagically unlock with just a BIOS update. So that leaves doing "something" with the signal itself for that additional bandwidth - and then the question is that can the existing hardware take it - the DP standard already is pretty efficient and doubling the bandwidth would probably take some pretty clever tricks.

What I think might have happened behind the scenes so that we have even more limited number of ports at our disposal is something on the lines of that AMD thought "gee would it not be cool to support 3 displays without active adapter" and then some marketing person who sees that atm most people use only up to 1080p screens says "yeah, thats what we want" and they do it in a sloppy way by just putting one of the 6 datastreams into an onboard active DP adapter using up one of the "spare" streams which gets rerouted to some port if there is something plugged in and otherwise just goes to waste. Dunno if its even remotely true, but lets just say that I though that having only 2 DP ports on the previous gen cards were already pretty retarded. They got out the MST hubs at last only last year while they were supposed to be coming already in 2010.

Edit: about vRAM usage - 1 GB per 4K is kinda minimum usable. That is not some fancy theory, that is actual experience in using such amount of vRAM at that resolution. It is not comfortable certainly, but it's entry level usable. 2 GB per 4K is already pretty decent, you will run out of vRAM occasionally but it's no longer all that common occurrence. So I would say that while the current top end cards with 4 GB would not be in the position to not having to care about video memory if running 3x 4K they would be able to do so in even modern games by doing some compromises in image settings and being conservative with effects that are memory intensive. Almost certainly using preset "ultra" in for example BF4 would be impossible, however, running AA off and mix of medium/low settings should offer 60+ fps with 3 or 4 cards. I would guess that CallsignVega or someone else with enough money to spend on displays will figure it out sooner or later and will tell us how this will work in reality. As soon as they find a card that can actually drive 3+ of 4K screens.
Edited by Carniflex - 3/23/14 at 12:18am
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post #3327 of 3943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

As soon as they find a card that can actually drive 3+ of 4K screens.

best bet is probably a firepro, even then, 24.9MP is a lot to process 60 times a second...
   
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post #3328 of 3943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

I seem to have somewhat odd problem in my hands. I can not do 3 screen eyefinity for some reason but can do 2 screen one. What puzzles me is that I have been able to do the 3 screen eyefinity in another location in addition to 5 screen eyefinity (on different gfx card on the same PC) previously.

Pictures: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
So I was able to pull off this previously:

Created with GIMP

However, now that I am at work with the smaller screens best I seem to be able to pull off is a 2 screen one. It does not matter which two out of the three I pick, all combinations work, but as soon as I try to pull off three "something" goes wrong.
Created with GIMP

So what happens exactly is following: I open CCC, go into setting up eyefinity tab, pick to start creating eyefinity and pick one of the three small screens to start making it. The one I pick remains functional, other two go blank. By default I'm sitting on 3x1 portrait orientation which is the one I want, however, when I push "continue" to does quiet beep and nothing happens. If I open up on the side the windows screen resolution stuff and extend desktop to the 2 displays that have gone blank I can continue with the 3 screen eyefinity setup, however, the eyefinity group will not be formed and I'm back at having 3 displays with desktop extended across these. If I pick only two screen eyefinity then I can continiue, one of the displays gets enabled by CCC and I will have the 2 screen eyefinity. After that I can extend desktop again to the third small screen ending up with the situation shown in the screenshot.

Hardware wise I have 3 GFX cards, a 6770 Eyefinity 5 without any displays attached to it, a 7870 Eyefinity 6 with the small screens behind it through displayport, a Sapphire 7950 Flex running the four 1080p screens, two in DVI and two in DP. In the first situation the 5 screen eyefinity was driven by the 7950 and the 3 screen eyefinity with the smaller screens by the 7870.

Any ideas?

Any ideas in regards of this? I have checked that I can indeed still do two eyefinity groups but that does not solve my issue. The small screens are still limited to only 2 screen eyefinity. The smaller eyefinity group is 2x 1080p screens out of 4 on the 7950 and all the 2048x1536 screens are plugged into 7870.
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post #3329 of 3943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul17041993 View Post

best bet is probably a firepro, even then, 24.9MP is a lot to process 60 times a second...

aha
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/26/amd_teases_workstation_pros_with_16gb_firepro_w9100_graphics_card/
supports up to 6* 4K per card apparently...
   
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post #3330 of 3943
^^^Amd's site said 5x1 and 3x2 were only allowd on 1080/1200 monitors. Yet someone was able to do it on 2560x1440. So, it begs the question if the limitations are purely driver/software controlled. Though, current hardware will bend to its knees and beg for mercy at at that insane resolution.





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