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post #16951 of 28378
That seems like a pretty bad plan. Even if the surfaces look to be perfectly flat, I can promise that they aren't. The point of the thermal paste is to fill in the imperfections, microscopic or otherwise, on both surfaces so that there is contact across the entire surface. Otherwise you'll end up with hot spots on the CPU, which is obviously less than ideal.
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post #16952 of 28378
Am in!
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post #16953 of 28378

No TIM in this video...

post #16954 of 28378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mergatroid View Post
I thought the entire point of tim was to fill any air gaps between the two surfaces?
If you have two perfectly flat surfaces, how is tim going to improve the heat transfer from one surface to the other? If there are any air gaps between the two surfaces, the tim fills those gaps allowing better heat transfer. If there are zero gaps tim shouldn't be needed.

Of course, I suppose it will fill any micro gaps. I would sure like to see a comparison of tim and no tim on lapped CPU and cooler surfaces. I never really thought about it much until your comment, but it seems to me on perfectly flat metal surfaces you should get pretty good heat transfer with no tim at all.

Anyone ever test this?


Quote:
When two surfaces are mated under pressure, the contact is not perfect, even for highly polished flat surfaces. Surface irregularities prevent
intimate contact of large areas between the mating surfaces. Solid contacts only occur between the high points of the two mating surfaces leaving a large number of voids between the low lying areas. Most of the heat transfer takes place via these solid contact points, but is restricted since the contact areas are very small. Heat transfer also occurs through the air entrapped in the irregular voids, but is extremely low since the thermal conductivity of air is very low compared to the metals that are in direct contact. In order to eliminate the air gaps and improve thermal transfer, a thermally conductive material is used. This material conforms to the surface peaks and valleys and displaces the air, providing more area for heat to flow and reducing the thermal resistance of the interface.
http://www.empf.org/empfasis/2009/De...tips_1209.html
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post #16955 of 28378
Quote:
Originally Posted by grillinman View Post
Very interesting.

Oh well, not willing to go through the trouble to lap my cooling plate and the CPU and then test it without tim.

I don't think it would hurt anything to test the theory out at low loads though, I would still be curious to see how the temps were under those conditions. It would be easy enough to keep track of them during the test to prevent any damage.

Edit:

@alancsalt

From the same article:

"To increase the effective area of heat transfer (A), the voids created by the imperfect surfaces must be filled with suitable highly conductive thermal interface materials. Many different approaches have been adopted by the industry to fill in these voids. Thermal greases, soft metal films, soft metal plating, better machining, and surface finishing techniques are some of the commonly adopted approaches."

The portion "better machining, and surface finishing techniques" seems to me to indicate better lapping methods can be used as well as tim applications. After reading the article though, it seems to me that a lot of pressure would be required to perfectly mate the surfaces. It seems to me the level of machining the surfaces would make a great deal of difference. Personally I would still like to see a test on a CPU cooler specifically. I suppose it may be too much work, and a caliper would likely be needed to tell just how flat the surfaces are. I suppose this is the real reason for tim to fill the gaps, because the amount of work to get a perfectly flat mated surface between two devices would just not be economical.



Maybe when I upgrade my boards and CPU I'll try this idea out before installing the new hardware.
Edited by Mergatroid - 3/25/11 at 7:17pm
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post #16956 of 28378
Thank you for replying. I am curious then, what is the accepted (IF such a thing) amount of difference between ambient and what the temperature I am reading (such as with CoreTemp)? I assume the closer to ambient the better however, is there a rule of thumb 1~5 C difference doing=GREAT 5~10=FAIR and anything more= PROBLEMS?? We haven't turned the ac on yet (YES I live in FL) so the ambient in my office area is 79F or 26C and coretemp is showing 32C net difference of 6C. Reading several msgs that followed I installed a shroud (had a left over 120 fan and removed the guts) and it didn't seem to improve my performance. I am using 56CFM fans to mirror the original fans. In your opinion am I getting all the cooling I can get out of my system as it configured? Thanks for your input..
post #16957 of 28378
Quote:
Originally Posted by grillinman View Post
Vid was pointless imho, cause the member isn't even giving any information. Just showing us his nifty polishing of the Cooler and attempting to pick up the CPU with nothing but surface to surface contact.

Also to clear up some misconceptions of my post about this, I said flat. Just because a surface is flat doesn't mean there are no grooves or valleys in the surface. To the nekkid eye the surface may look completely without flaw, but even Marble has microscopic grooves and valleys after polishing.

The trick is to get the surface closer to the base of those grooves so less TIM can be used and the heat can be wicked away by the cooler. You cannot get an absolutely perfect surface no matter what you do.

The point is that the TIM will get a much more even spread and fill any grooves or valleys better.

It IS worth it. Maybe not for everybody, but for people who demand a cooler temp so they can overclock without crashing through the temp Barrier head first I highly recommend it.

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post #16958 of 28378
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedracer View Post
Thank you for replying. I am curious then, what is the accepted (IF such a thing) amount of difference between ambient and what the temperature I am reading (such as with CoreTemp)? I assume the closer to ambient the better however, is there a rule of thumb 1~5 C difference doing=GREAT 5~10=FAIR and anything more= PROBLEMS?? We haven't turned the ac on yet (YES I live in FL) so the ambient in my office area is 79F or 26C and coretemp is showing 32C net difference of 6C. Reading several msgs that followed I installed a shroud (had a left over 120 fan and removed the guts) and it didn't seem to improve my performance. I am using 56CFM fans to mirror the original fans. In your opinion am I getting all the cooling I can get out of my system as it configured? Thanks for your input..
I thought it was 6 to 8C at idle, but with multi core chips idle temps are poor approximations.
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post #16959 of 28378
I bought MX-4 thermal paste for my Hyper 212+ which I just replaced with an H50. Would it be beneficial to remove the stock paste on the H50 and use the MX-4?
post #16960 of 28378
Quote:
Originally Posted by crabby654 View Post
I bought MX-4 thermal paste for my Hyper 212+ which I just replaced with an H50. Would it be beneficial to remove the stock paste on the H50 and use the MX-4?
Stock Paste is the best available and comparable to AC5. Only without the blasted long Cure time of 200hrs.

It's Shin-Etsu G751. If you remove if and roll it into a ball you can pinch off what you need and then store the rest in wax paper and a ZipLoc storage bag.

You can definitely use the MX-4 but it's not as good as the G751.

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