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Multiple circuit

post #1 of 6
Thread Starter 
Hi all,

I am new to this forum and hope this is the correct place for thoughts on the following idea / setup of which I can't find whether anyone tried it before or whether it has negative points that make it useless:

The basics:
Building a high end super quiet pc that does not release heat into the small room where it's placed unless I want it to.
In my opinion it is a waste to counter an average use of say 500W from the pc with an airco that would use a lot more energy.
- Placing the whole pc in another room would be the easy solution,but is no option here.
- Using an external radiator placed in the cool cellar at 20 m distance and one floor down is an option, but has some problems to tackle.

For this reason I came up with the following solotion:

Http://www.panzerbasics.com/images/cooling-basics.gif
(Should this link not work, the image is also attached at the bottom of this message)

In this system, a watercooled pc is placed upon a tank containing liquid, which acts as a heat exchanger / buffer.
Instead of directing the heat from the pc directly to a radiator fixed to the pc, the water would run through a length of copper pipe in the tank, thus heating the liquid.

The liquid in the tank would basically be cooled by using the radiator in the basement. (Temperature underground over here is a constant 11°C) Since this radiator is placed out of sight, it might be anything usable. Even a large old radiator from the house would do.

In this setup it would not be possible to relocate the computer. For that reason I included a normal radiator to the system that should be attached to or near the computer.

If the system works, the basement radiator could be used for normal cooling, whilst there is also the option of using the other one for assisting in heating the small room in wintertime.

Preferably all three circuits, but at least the basement one will be connected to the tank using quick connectors.
Condensation could be a problem. The tank should reduce it a bit, but the pc has to be protected by isolating cooling points.
Also the tank acts as a buffer which should provide time and thus prevents damage in case one of the two radiator circuits should fail for some reason.

If the system works, it might even be usable to hook multiple pc's to a single cooling line.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance,

Rob
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post #2 of 6
Interesting idea

The only thing i'll add at the moment is that you may get better heat transfer by replacing the copper coils (in the tank) with some type of radiator (vehicle heater core). More surface area will transfer more heat.

EDIT: Also, for the 'room heating' option, you may see better results by simply removing the radiator (which replaces the copper coils) attached to the PC, from the liquid-filled box. Instead of trying to transfer heat from the PC to the liquid to another radiator then to the air - it would just transfer from the PC to a radiator and then the air.

My
Edited by Slider46 - 12/9/09 at 7:37am
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
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RAMHard DriveHard DriveCooling
G.Skill Sniper 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk Samsung 850 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk EK-Supreme LTX - Nickel CSQ 
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Aquacomputer Aquaero 5 LT EK D5 Vario Pump with X-Top Bitspower Water Tank Z-Multi 150 V2 1/2" x 3/8" PETG Rigid tubing 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EK-FC670 GTX (Qty 2) EK-FC670 GTX Backplate - Black (Qty 2) EK-FC Bridge DUAL Parallel 3-Slot CSQ Plexi XSPC RX 240 
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post #3 of 6
Instead of coils in the water tank, you probably want to use additional radiators. Coils don't provide enough surface area for PC cooling since the temperature differential is so low.


Why are there two "cooling" loops? The "warmer" of these two loops will end up decrease performance (assuming the "cooler" of the two has sufficent capacity.)
Edited by DuckieHo - 12/9/09 at 7:36am
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post #4 of 6
Thread Starter 
Hi Slider46 and Duckieho,

Thanks for the quick response.

The (long distance) cooling circuit would be in use normally, but has some disadvantadges. One of them being unable to move the pc around if needed. The other is that larger and more complex things tend to be more sensative to failure.
For that reason I would like to see an extra rad (mounted on or in the case), able to take over in case of trouble, or possibly in wintertime to generate extra heat in the room.

The pc's primary circuit may not fail at any time.
The idea behind the liquid tank, which I think should be something like 24x60x15 cm is that it acts as a safe "switch" between the three circuits, also is a buffer that can buy some time in case of failure of one of the two cooling circuits and lastly, it could help avoiding to large temperature differences which cause condensation.
Basically only one of the two external circuits would be in use at any given time.

I have not run any calculation on the tank size and type of coil / rad yet, though in my opinion it seems like in this size tank several meters coil length would already be overkill.

Rob
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Intel X25-M SSD/ WD10EADS 1 TB Sony optiarc Windows 7 Professional Samsung Syncmaster 2433BW 
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post #5 of 6
Instead of coils in the water, simply pump it directly from the tank through the rads or waterblock.

You would need three pumps connected to the same reservoir. One pump would pump water to the computer, one to the upper rad, and one to the lower rad. Depending on the situation, you could either run the upper or lower rad. You could even get by with one pump for the rads but have a diverting valve so you could select which loop it pumps into.

The water will all get mixed together and the temperature will even out. I would use an insulated reservoir and insulated hoses myself if the basement is at 11C. Even at 11C, condensation at the PC shouldn't be an issue.
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post #6 of 6
Thread Starter 
Hi Walker450,
Splendid idea and it would certainly work. However, there are some things to consider:
-The tank and the external long distance radiator will take a considerable amount of liquid. This may be expensive. In the coil system it would be possible to use different fluids. Plain water in the long distance system would be cheaper.
-Mixing metals can cause corrosion. Not wanted in at least the primary loop. In the coil system, different materials can be used in each loop.
-The non-coiled system would likely need some extra protection like filters, flow guard(s) and a water level sensor for the tank.

A mixture of the two systems might be best in the end, mostly depending on the size and length of the external room loop.

Just after starting this topic my current pc has suddenly became very unreliable (Seems to be a power failure caused by the mobo somehow). Anyway I won’t fix it, but am rushing into a new machine instead.
This will start as an air cooled system, with a likely conversion to the liquid system later in 2010.

It will at least buy me the time to do some good solid thinking and research on the subject before realising it!

For those interested, the planned new system so far:
Windows 7 64 Bit
Case - Silverstone fortress FT01B
Mobo - P6T SE
Cpu - i7 920 with Megahalem cooler (Passive)
Memory - Corsair Dominator DDR3 1600 6GB
Hard drive – Intel X25-M SSD 80Gb + WD Caviar 1TB
Graphics card – GV-R485MC-1Gl, Radeon HD4850 passive cooled
Monitor – Samsung Syncmaster 2433BW
Keyboard/mouse – Logitech cordless desktop MX5500

Rob
The build
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 920 socket 1366 Asus P6T SE Club3D HD5750 1GB passive DDR3 1600 6GB Corsair Dominator 
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Intel X25-M SSD/ WD10EADS 1 TB Sony optiarc Windows 7 Professional Samsung Syncmaster 2433BW 
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The build
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 920 socket 1366 Asus P6T SE Club3D HD5750 1GB passive DDR3 1600 6GB Corsair Dominator 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Intel X25-M SSD/ WD10EADS 1 TB Sony optiarc Windows 7 Professional Samsung Syncmaster 2433BW 
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Logitec MX5500 Enermax Modu82+ 625W Silverstone Fortress FT01B Steelseries 
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