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Prometia Mach II GT X 4 - Paralleled Prommies - TRANS4MER - Page 5

post #41 of 311
Originally Posted by acdcmike View Post
Quick question!

I bought a supercharged i7 920 on Ebay that does 4.5 GHz @ 215 BCLK @ 1.40 V on air stable.

What would be your best estimate on overclocking this chip with the future system if I achieve the -80 C no load.

Interesting question and only testing will give you the answer. My 920 D0 ran just fine at -130c, how ever a friend came over with his 920 D0 which ran really good on Air like the one you posted but cold bugged at -30c and it really gave no real improvement under that temp.

CPUs are all different and usually the ones that Clock really good on Air are horrible on extreme cold, the reverse is true also.

A good research of batch numers for the processor you want to use is generally the best way to go to find a chip that will perform in the temp range you want to use.

Also your temp range of -80c seems a bit off, how are you coming up with this number ?

SS Phase temp range is generally -45c - -20c under load, give or take some in that range depending on the unit. You will not find a SS Phase that runs at -80c as far as I know.

-80c is in the DICE range or just a tad colder. This might also be in the Auto Cascade temp range, these units are some what rare and not that many around that actually work. NOL would know a great deal about these units, hes a smart guy
I have seen a window AC unit converted to a 2 stage cascade that hit in the -80c range, or instant DICE temps.

2 Stage Cascade systems typicaly run at -110c range unloaded, give or take a few degrees depending on the unit. There are some so called mini cascades out there that are actually pretty nice, again some what rare and complex.

A good amount of research about all these systems is in order, proper CPU's to use for a given temp range, what type of cooling will be used and the capabilities of such units. Can the equipment I have reach any of these spec's. Otherwise projects tend to end up not working they way things were intended, forcing rebuilds or unsatfactory results. Knowing the pros and cons of each type of piece of equipment is a big plus, I would never expect my Cascade to run at -80c unloaded, nor could my SS Phase reach that level of cold and be able to handle any load at all.
Edited by Buckeye - 1/29/10 at 8:49am
post #42 of 311
Thread Starter 
Also your temp range of -80c seems a bit off, how are you coming up with this number ?[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your input.

It would only stand to reason that if a prommie hits -65 C and is good up to 200W that if you cascade you would get a little more. -80C doesn't seem to be an un-realistic number wouldn't you say? -50 C under load.
post #43 of 311
A target goal of -80c unloaded is unrealistic as no SS Phase out there can reach "That" target and hold a load, period. Ron SDumper, NOL can answer what a Prommie can do, I have not ever used one but those 2 numbers you showed seem rather extreme for any SS Phase unit.

Even some of the best SS Phase Benching units that are made by the best builders around do not hit that temp and be able to handle any kind of load.

Also the definition of a "Load" should be defined, is that running 1024 wPrime at a high OC, or just SuperPi 1M, or even 3DMark06 CPU Test #1.

With my Cascade its unloaded temp is -111.7c and with a load tester set at 280watts its -87c. How ever a load tester and a fully loaded CPU running wPrime 1024 with 8 threads on a 920 D0 are 2 completly different animals. My Cascade is an older unit and was spec'd for lower watt loads, it needs to be upgraded.

It also has no Hot Gas Bypass which means that if I cannot get a CPU to boot in the -100c - -110c range then I have to play major games to get it to boot at -80c
Edited by Buckeye - 1/29/10 at 10:11am
post #44 of 311
This should be interesting and I think you are being a bit over optimistic with your goals.
I think you've taken some parts that work in one situation, a single stage, and are now trying to make them into a cascade. Sadly I believe this will fail, the parts are grossly undersized for your load as well as temperature goal.

Design starts at the evaporator, the load and temps, not with the parts you have on hand and "make them" somehow do something they are not built to do.
post #45 of 311
Thread Starter 

I wish I could say that there is a way,
But I'm not well versed enough in HVAC to play.

So what now? Give up? I think not. I want my double pumper.
One thing I've never been able to handle very well in my life and that's to be told I can't do something.

I will come up with something, even if I do have to upgrade the condensor, put ethylene gas in the second stage, whatever.

I'm sure with some help, as you are giving me, we can most certainly come up with something. I also have two refrigeration guys coming here at seven to go over the project, they may provide some insight on the issues at hand.

ttyl my friends.
post #46 of 311
You have alot of reading to do.
Get a single stage running first, otherwise ur chances of success on a VERY ambitious project are less then they already are.

We're not saying you can't do it, we're saying you aren't ready or you simply don't know enough to do it. It is now your perogative to figure those details out.

For instance, the size of the condenser. All four of those together would not be enough.

Ethylene is a very high pressure second stage gas, something that is VERY HARD to condense and requires a large and powerful first stage; something your not providing. Ethylene would not be usable in this system. Even R23 or R508A would be pushing it. Co2 would be a good practice starter.
post #47 of 311
Thread Starter 
Hi Nol,

You have alot of reading to do.

>>>I know and I have been and I will continue.

Get a single stage running first, otherwise ur chances of success on a VERY ambitious project are less then they already are.

>>>Two of these units are functional, never been tampered with (gas, lines etc. except head housings). I could hook up the controllers and get them running.

Do I get an E for effort?
post #48 of 311
Sorry but naw
By get a single stage running first, I don't mean as in overclocking your processor.
I mean build one, start to finish, from picking parts, to final tuning and refrigerant tweaking to capillary cutting.
You have no idea of behavior in the most basic scenario without doing that first.
And cascades are just that, cascades. Like waterfalls, effects trickle downstream causing disruptions and changes in all cycles.
post #49 of 311
Thread Starter 
Well, I have a teacher now.

I met up with 2 certified HVAC guy's this evening that have knowledge in cascading. They are very interested in helping me get my project completed.

The nice thing about all of this is that they have all the necessary equipment and meters etc. to get the job done. I expect that we will commence next week sometime and I will learn a great deal as I am a sponge for knowledge. I don't miss a trick. I will be doing everything from reclaim, gassing to cutting the cap back and tweaking to perfection.

I must order some parts tomorrow to prepare for the build.
post #50 of 311
Good luck, but I have yet to meet any "HVAC" guys that work on cascades. Simply because HVAC stands for heating, ventilation, and air conditioning. None of which cascades do.

Please don't simply TRY something to prove something, we see that hear quite a bit, and people end up huffing up a pound of refrigerant or wasting money.
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