Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel CPUs › Vdroop or not??(LLC) Poll!!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Vdroop or not??(LLC) Poll!! - Page 7

Poll Results: Would you have Vdroop on or off?

 
  • 53% (114)
    Vdroop on
  • 46% (98)
    Vdroop off
212 Total Votes  
post #61 of 84
Slightly OT... and some questions.

I get the gist of the vDroop and LLC discussion, but even with that info I think I still have a problem. Here's my experience and what I did with my sig rig whilst trying to achieve a better/stable OC. So I was trying to get my Q6600 even close to 3.2 GHz on my P5K with vCore in BIOS set sround 1.375v and LLC default/on, but as I would run stability tests on OCCT I would see my idle vCore at perhaps 1.34v go all the way to 1.24v or lower... and would eventually crash the test or just blue screen, presumably as vCore dropped even lower. After all my reading on the Q6600's capabilities, I concluded that this vDroop was unnaturally large. My "fix" was a pencil mod that seemed to eliminate the vDroop, at least to within 0.005-0.01v below my idle voltage. Everything's stable now and my temps stay below 60C on OCCT.

But now that I've read this thread, I'm a bit worried that my positive idle-to-load spike is around +0.11v, equivalent to my non-modded vDroop, possibly bringing my load spike voltage to around 1.5v (1.375v + 0.11v +/- unknown spiking). Is this correct? If so, what does it mean for me, my CPU, and what does that say about my mobo? My current PSU is an improvment over the old, debranded one, and it has great reviews, so I doubt that it exacerbates my (old) stability issues.

Also, this thread seems to lack relevant vDroop volt mod discussion. How does a vDroop pencil mod such as mine, and vDroop mods in general, play into the discussion?

I should note that I haven't tested with LLC off after I volt modded--the thought never occured--and I can't do so at this moment because of chkdsk scan... I fully intend to test with LLC off after having read this thread.
Not Enough
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-860 @ 3.7GHz Gigabyte P55A-UD4P Sapphire R9 290X Tri-X 4GB (Original) 2x2GB DDR3-1600 G. Skill Eco 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
1x512GB Transcend 370 | 1x3TB Toshiba | 1x3TB... LG 18x something... Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B Windows 7 Professional x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
BenQ XL2411Z BenQ G2412HD Cooler Master Quick Fire Ultimate (Browns) XFX 750 Black Edition 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Antec 902 Logitech G502 Steelseries 4HD Creative X-Fi Titanium 
  hide details  
Reply
Not Enough
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-860 @ 3.7GHz Gigabyte P55A-UD4P Sapphire R9 290X Tri-X 4GB (Original) 2x2GB DDR3-1600 G. Skill Eco 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
1x512GB Transcend 370 | 1x3TB Toshiba | 1x3TB... LG 18x something... Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B Windows 7 Professional x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
BenQ XL2411Z BenQ G2412HD Cooler Master Quick Fire Ultimate (Browns) XFX 750 Black Edition 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Antec 902 Logitech G502 Steelseries 4HD Creative X-Fi Titanium 
  hide details  
Reply
post #62 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctr2yellowbird View Post
Also, this thread seems to lack relevant vDroop volt mod discussion. How does a vDroop pencil mod such as mine, and vDroop mods in general, play into the discussion?
Exactly like using LLC.


As for your problem, maybe someone with that MB can help you better than I can. I know that the socket 775 ASUS boards are know for some hefty voltage, but yours sounds absolutely ridiculous. There may actually be a problem with the board. But, like I said, I'm not too familiar with that board, so hopefully someone else can give you more specific help.
Finally an update
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 7700k @ 4.8 MSI Z270 Pro Carbon Zotac GTX1060 6gb GSkill TridentZ 16gb (3200mhz) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 960 Evo 500gb Samsung 850 EVO 250gb WD Blue 500gb x2 RAID0 ASUS DVDRW 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Thermalright Venemous-X Windows 10 Acer H257HU 1440p Razor Blackwidow 
PowerCase
Seasonic X650 Coolermaster Storm Scout 
  hide details  
Reply
Finally an update
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 7700k @ 4.8 MSI Z270 Pro Carbon Zotac GTX1060 6gb GSkill TridentZ 16gb (3200mhz) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 960 Evo 500gb Samsung 850 EVO 250gb WD Blue 500gb x2 RAID0 ASUS DVDRW 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Thermalright Venemous-X Windows 10 Acer H257HU 1440p Razor Blackwidow 
PowerCase
Seasonic X650 Coolermaster Storm Scout 
  hide details  
Reply
post #63 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctr2yellowbird View Post
Slightly OT... and some questions.

I get the gist of the vDroop and LLC discussion, but even with that info I think I still have a problem. Here's my experience and what I did with my sig rig whilst trying to achieve a better/stable OC. So I was trying to get my Q6600 even close to 3.2 GHz on my P5K with vCore in BIOS set sround 1.375v and LLC default/on, but as I would run stability tests on OCCT I would see my idle vCore at perhaps 1.34v go all the way to 1.24v or lower... and would eventually crash the test or just blue screen, presumably as vCore dropped even lower. After all my reading on the Q6600's capabilities, I concluded that this vDroop was unnaturally large. My "fix" was a pencil mod that seemed to eliminate the vDroop, at least to within 0.005-0.01v below my idle voltage. Everything's stable now and my temps stay below 60C on OCCT.

But now that I've read this thread, I'm a bit worried that my positive idle-to-load spike is around +0.11v, equivalent to my non-modded vDroop, possibly bringing my load spike voltage to around 1.5v (1.375v + 0.11v +/- unknown spiking). Is this correct? If so, what does it mean for me, my CPU, and what does that say about my mobo? My current PSU is an improvment over the old, debranded one, and it has great reviews, so I doubt that it exacerbates my (old) stability issues.

Also, this thread seems to lack relevant vDroop volt mod discussion. How does a vDroop pencil mod such as mine, and vDroop mods in general, play into the discussion?

I should note that I haven't tested with LLC off after I volt modded--the thought never occured--and I can't do so at this moment because of chkdsk scan... I fully intend to test with LLC off after having read this thread.
You cannot get a spike of 1.5. You can however get a spike of .05 which is only measurable with a micron. Long story short, the little spike will not hurt anything. If you can throw 1.7 at a chip with L2N, temps are low but volts are still high, there is no difference.
The HedgeHog
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3770K Z77-UP7 MSI GTX 680 Twin 4 Gig G.Skill Trident X 2600's and some Dom's Hypers 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Yes, lots of them. LN2  The smallest one I can get! Samsung 2333 HD 23" 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corisar 1200 AX=1.21 jigawatts Fractal Design/Dimastech G5 Rocketfish 
  hide details  
Reply
The HedgeHog
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3770K Z77-UP7 MSI GTX 680 Twin 4 Gig G.Skill Trident X 2600's and some Dom's Hypers 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Yes, lots of them. LN2  The smallest one I can get! Samsung 2333 HD 23" 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corisar 1200 AX=1.21 jigawatts Fractal Design/Dimastech G5 Rocketfish 
  hide details  
Reply
post #64 of 84
I now have my current volt numbers, since I just "set it and forget it" after I couldn't OC higher... As reported by OCCT (would CPU-Z measurements be better?):

vCore = 1.3875v (0.1125v increments...)
vIdle = 1.37v
vLoad = 1.36v

old, pencil'd out vDroop = 0.11v or worse...
-regardless of vCore in BIOS, my system would always crash under stress tests, so vDroop of 0.11-0.17v+ is totally possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGuru View Post
You cannot get a spike of 1.5. You can however get a spike of .05 which is only measurable with a micron.
If I wasn't clear, I was asking if my vCore would/could spike to 1.5v, and then drop back down to 1.36v under load. I'm confused as to why my vCore would only spike 0.05v? I thought the negative and positive spikes were equal to vDrop + vDroop without LLC enabled, as suggested by the charts on the OP. If that's the case and if my pencil mod is equivalent to enabling LLC on a board where LLC actually works (...), then why wouldn't my vCore spike to 1.5v or so when my old vDroop (0.11-0.17v+) + vDrop (0.02-0.03v) = 0.13v or much worse? Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGuru View Post
Long story short, the little spike will not hurt anything. If you can throw 1.7 at a chip with L2N, temps are low but volts are still high, there is no difference.
You're saying that, even if my vCore spikes to 1.6v for a split second (not unthinkable with my board), my chip/board won't be harmed at all? Is that correct? I'm not as concerned with my temps (58C under load) as I am with the possibility for accelerated CPU degredation or my CPU prematurely dieing when my CPU temporarily spikes to out-of-spec voltages.
Not Enough
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-860 @ 3.7GHz Gigabyte P55A-UD4P Sapphire R9 290X Tri-X 4GB (Original) 2x2GB DDR3-1600 G. Skill Eco 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
1x512GB Transcend 370 | 1x3TB Toshiba | 1x3TB... LG 18x something... Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B Windows 7 Professional x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
BenQ XL2411Z BenQ G2412HD Cooler Master Quick Fire Ultimate (Browns) XFX 750 Black Edition 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Antec 902 Logitech G502 Steelseries 4HD Creative X-Fi Titanium 
  hide details  
Reply
Not Enough
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-860 @ 3.7GHz Gigabyte P55A-UD4P Sapphire R9 290X Tri-X 4GB (Original) 2x2GB DDR3-1600 G. Skill Eco 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
1x512GB Transcend 370 | 1x3TB Toshiba | 1x3TB... LG 18x something... Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B Windows 7 Professional x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
BenQ XL2411Z BenQ G2412HD Cooler Master Quick Fire Ultimate (Browns) XFX 750 Black Edition 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Antec 902 Logitech G502 Steelseries 4HD Creative X-Fi Titanium 
  hide details  
Reply
post #65 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AyeYo View Post
LLC is really you just fooling yourself into thinking you're running less voltage. Think of it like this...

With LLC disabled, you set BIOS voltage to what you feel to be safe, 1.36v. You then fire up Prime, voltage drops to, say, 1.32v... and you fail Prime.

You then enable LLC, BIOS voltage is still set to 1.36v. You fire up, Prime and voltage doesn't drop (it stays at 1.36v, on some boards maybe it even goes up to 1.40v)... and you pass Prime.


You incorrectly conclude that LLC stabilized your overclock. But what's really happening here? The reality of the matter is that your overclock needs 1.36v under load to be stable. LLC gives you 1.36v under load with a BIOS set voltage of 1.36v. If you wanted 1.36v under load with LLC disabled, you'd need to up BIOS voltage to maybe 1.39v. So it takes more voltage to stabilize your overclock that way, right? Wrong.

With LLC disabled, the voltage you set in the BIOS is the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM your CPU will see on that high-load to low-load spike. It is NOT the running voltage of your CPU.

With LLC enabled, the voltage you set in the BIOS is NOT the absolute maximum your CPU will see on that spike - it is the voltage your CPU will see under load. This means that when your CPU encounters the high to low load voltage spike, it's going to overshoot your BIOS set voltage by quite a bit (as can be seen in the graph from Anandtech). This means your CPU ends up seeing HIGHER voltage than it does with LLC disabled... you just don't know about it.

LLC boils down to, out of sight, out of mind. Disabling it and raising your BIOS voltage until you are stable is simply letting you see just how much voltage your CPU is really seeing with LLC on.

Hope that made sense... I suck at explaining stuff...
Isn't there a BIOS setting to limit the extent of the jump?
Gumbercules
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 930 Batch 3951A694 X58A-UD5 Gigabyte GTX 480 G.SKILL Pi Series F3-12800CL7T-6GBP 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB Hitachi Deskstar LG WH10LS30K 10X Blu-ray Burner Win7 64 Bit 24" LG 
PowerCase
Corsair 950TX XClio Windtunnel 
  hide details  
Reply
Gumbercules
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 930 Batch 3951A694 X58A-UD5 Gigabyte GTX 480 G.SKILL Pi Series F3-12800CL7T-6GBP 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB Hitachi Deskstar LG WH10LS30K 10X Blu-ray Burner Win7 64 Bit 24" LG 
PowerCase
Corsair 950TX XClio Windtunnel 
  hide details  
Reply
post #66 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by lt_wentoncha View Post
Isn't there a BIOS setting to limit the extent of the jump?
No. I have adjustable v-offset on my board, but there's no way to control the off-load jump. The spike is just a characteristic of how the power is regulated. The regulation is reactive, not proactive. The voltage regulators don't know the drop in load is coming, so all they can do is react to it after it happens (which takes a finite amount of time), which means you will get the spike no matter what. That's the whole point of vdroop and vdrop, to keep the voltage lower than what you set so that it's the spike, not your load voltage that hits your BIOS set voltage.
Finally an update
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 7700k @ 4.8 MSI Z270 Pro Carbon Zotac GTX1060 6gb GSkill TridentZ 16gb (3200mhz) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 960 Evo 500gb Samsung 850 EVO 250gb WD Blue 500gb x2 RAID0 ASUS DVDRW 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Thermalright Venemous-X Windows 10 Acer H257HU 1440p Razor Blackwidow 
PowerCase
Seasonic X650 Coolermaster Storm Scout 
  hide details  
Reply
Finally an update
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 7700k @ 4.8 MSI Z270 Pro Carbon Zotac GTX1060 6gb GSkill TridentZ 16gb (3200mhz) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 960 Evo 500gb Samsung 850 EVO 250gb WD Blue 500gb x2 RAID0 ASUS DVDRW 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Thermalright Venemous-X Windows 10 Acer H257HU 1440p Razor Blackwidow 
PowerCase
Seasonic X650 Coolermaster Storm Scout 
  hide details  
Reply
post #67 of 84
Yeah,and what about percentages? My board offers a full range of LLC options,from 0% to 100%.Stock is 50% I believe.Im running it at 70% at the moment ,at 1.512 it drops down to 1.500 volts.Haven't tried it off yet,so I may start running some stability tests with it off.
Amelia
(13 items)
 
Professional
(13 items)
 
RCPC#1
(17 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X6 1100t MSI 890FX GD65 MSI Radeon HD5670 GSkill RipjawsX DDR3 PC3 12800 2x4GB CL8 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
WD Black 1TB SATA III Samsung BD Zalman 9900MAX Windows 7 64 Professional 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
AOC 22" LED Logitech Kingwin Lazer Platinum 500w Fractal Design R3 
Other
Samsung 470 SSD 128GB 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X6 960T Asus M4A88T-VEVO Asus Strix R7 370 SuperTalent Perfomance 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
GSkill Snipers Monster Daytona Seagate Barracuda 500GB 7,200 RPM 16Mb cache Memorex DVD/RW 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair H60 Windows 8N IBM 9494 19" LCD IBM 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair GS500 In Win H-Frame Wolfking OCZ Behemoth 
Audio
JBL Creature 
  hide details  
Reply
Amelia
(13 items)
 
Professional
(13 items)
 
RCPC#1
(17 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X6 1100t MSI 890FX GD65 MSI Radeon HD5670 GSkill RipjawsX DDR3 PC3 12800 2x4GB CL8 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
WD Black 1TB SATA III Samsung BD Zalman 9900MAX Windows 7 64 Professional 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
AOC 22" LED Logitech Kingwin Lazer Platinum 500w Fractal Design R3 
Other
Samsung 470 SSD 128GB 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X6 960T Asus M4A88T-VEVO Asus Strix R7 370 SuperTalent Perfomance 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
GSkill Snipers Monster Daytona Seagate Barracuda 500GB 7,200 RPM 16Mb cache Memorex DVD/RW 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair H60 Windows 8N IBM 9494 19" LCD IBM 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair GS500 In Win H-Frame Wolfking OCZ Behemoth 
Audio
JBL Creature 
  hide details  
Reply
post #68 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctr2yellowbird View Post
I now have my current volt numbers, since I just "set it and forget it" after I couldn't OC higher... As reported by OCCT (would CPU-Z measurements be better?):

vCore = 1.3875v (0.1125v increments...)
vIdle = 1.37v
vLoad = 1.36v

old, pencil'd out vDroop = 0.11v or worse...
-regardless of vCore in BIOS, my system would always crash under stress tests, so vDroop of 0.11-0.17v+ is totally possible



If I wasn't clear, I was asking if my vCore would/could spike to 1.5v, and then drop back down to 1.36v under load. I'm confused as to why my vCore would only spike 0.05v? I thought the negative and positive spikes were equal to vDrop + vDroop without LLC enabled, as suggested by the charts on the OP. If that's the case and if my pencil mod is equivalent to enabling LLC on a board where LLC actually works (...), then why wouldn't my vCore spike to 1.5v or so when my old vDroop (0.11-0.17v+) + vDrop (0.02-0.03v) = 0.13v or much worse? Am I missing something?



You're saying that, even if my vCore spikes to 1.6v for a split second (not unthinkable with my board), my chip/board won't be harmed at all? Is that correct? I'm not as concerned with my temps (58C under load) as I am with the possibility for accelerated CPU degredation or my CPU prematurely dieing when my CPU temporarily spikes to out-of-spec voltages.
Look at the chart again, the highest spike is .04 and not significant enough to do any damage. The spike cannot even be read with software, you have to have very high tech equipment to read it.
As much crap as I give my chips, there is no way that spike can hurt anything, and if so, it's a very long shot.
The HedgeHog
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3770K Z77-UP7 MSI GTX 680 Twin 4 Gig G.Skill Trident X 2600's and some Dom's Hypers 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Yes, lots of them. LN2  The smallest one I can get! Samsung 2333 HD 23" 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corisar 1200 AX=1.21 jigawatts Fractal Design/Dimastech G5 Rocketfish 
  hide details  
Reply
The HedgeHog
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3770K Z77-UP7 MSI GTX 680 Twin 4 Gig G.Skill Trident X 2600's and some Dom's Hypers 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Yes, lots of them. LN2  The smallest one I can get! Samsung 2333 HD 23" 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corisar 1200 AX=1.21 jigawatts Fractal Design/Dimastech G5 Rocketfish 
  hide details  
Reply
post #69 of 84
I always leave mine off as it stopped crashes in some games I was playing...
Mostly For Gaming
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4820K EK cooled ASUS x79 680, EK cooled G.skill 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
512GB 840 Pro  ASUS DVD Burner 3 Loops which consist of 7 Waterblocks, 4 Radia... 8.1pro 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ZR30w S-IPS 2560x1600 Ɠ19 SILVERSTONE ST 1500W Custom 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Ɠ500 Ɍocketfish SENNHEISER 
  hide details  
Reply
Mostly For Gaming
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4820K EK cooled ASUS x79 680, EK cooled G.skill 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
512GB 840 Pro  ASUS DVD Burner 3 Loops which consist of 7 Waterblocks, 4 Radia... 8.1pro 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ZR30w S-IPS 2560x1600 Ɠ19 SILVERSTONE ST 1500W Custom 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Ɠ500 Ɍocketfish SENNHEISER 
  hide details  
Reply
post #70 of 84
Alright lately ive been messing with this.

My question is, I have vdroop on.
While idle its at 1.32v, while 100% load it goes to 1.27.

If i disable vdroop and leave it at 1.27 would i become unstable?
Dont have time to try it, folding like crazy when i can before chimp challenge.
>.<
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 930 4.0ghz 1.27v EVGA E758 3-Way (black/gray) Evga GTX 480 / Evga 9800gtx+ (physx&folding) Corsair Dominator 6gb 1600 8-8-8-24 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
x25-M SSD 80gb + 1TB F3 + 2x2TB WD Green Win 7 64bit Viewsonic 20" + Samsung 40" Corsair 1000w 
Case
Haf 932 (modded) - Now caseless 
  hide details  
Reply
>.<
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 930 4.0ghz 1.27v EVGA E758 3-Way (black/gray) Evga GTX 480 / Evga 9800gtx+ (physx&folding) Corsair Dominator 6gb 1600 8-8-8-24 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
x25-M SSD 80gb + 1TB F3 + 2x2TB WD Green Win 7 64bit Viewsonic 20" + Samsung 40" Corsair 1000w 
Case
Haf 932 (modded) - Now caseless 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Intel CPUs
Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel CPUs › Vdroop or not??(LLC) Poll!!