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post #1311 of 3147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Panda View Post

Very nice post sleepysmileyanim.gif... My senses 'lie to me' and I see the light in the wisdom of your pontificating demeanour rolleyes.gif yawn...then again my brain is also lying to me so I don't know what to believe...your condescension or my ears perceiving a solid improvement to my STX.

The thing is...

a) There might not be any real difference.
b) If there was, you might prefer the last one.

Why? Feeling are vague all the time, which means that you rely more on the memory in your brain rather than on the feelings themselves... meaning: its impossible to objectively compare two products with known different costs if there is no way to measure them because your brain might think whatever it wants... BUT, all of this disappears when doing blind tests, because in such tests there is no "value" nor anything other thing included and, thus, the trials are 100% pure.

And this is what pisses me off... that no sound based forum of any importance is based on such blind tests, and thus sponsors the crappy "the more expensive, the better", which makes no sense whatsoever.

All in all, I'm not claiming WHAT YOU LIKE, I'm just saying that the only way of truly "feeling" which one you like the most is by testing the same product in blind-tests because you will have no bias (doesn't matter if you don't want to have bias... you will probably prefer to like something more than the other, and unless the difference is HUGE your mind will create such differences).

Its the only thing I'm pointing out: feelings are vague, but if you blind them... then you rely solely on your ears.
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post #1312 of 3147
objective measurements matter

subjective opinions not backed by data aren't worth much at all
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post #1313 of 3147
Quote:
Originally Posted by seepra View Post

We've now several times explained why it's not an improvement towards higher fidelity in the actual definition of the word. Of course you are free to enjoy it and prefer it over the non-modified sound, but to say it's a factual improvement outside the subjective domain (which is then again what matters the most) is pure ignorance towards the base principles of electronics and signal processing. You can like it and SHOULD like it if it sounds good to you, but it's only an subjective improvement and you should keep that in mind before you make grand claims or take an unnecessarily aggressive stance against the fundamentals of electronics. Talk about pot calling a kettle black about being condescending. I'd be ready to bet that some other people might find your modification less comfortable than the vanilla thing, but I'm happy that you've found something that makes you enjoy music more. I'd just always like to differentiate between factual improvements (SNR, THD, IMD, freq. response) versus personal opinions/tweaks.
So unless you've got an oscilloscope handy to prove yourself, please refrain from bragging "solid improvement", or at least have the courtesy to add "in my opinion" to it wink.gif Otherwise it just smells like waving e-phallos around with little to back up your words.
I couldn't care less about your opinion. It's pretty comical that you call me ignorant. As you say pot calls kettle. I clearly say in my original post "to my ears" which in my own way is an admission that what works for me might not work for others, or in fact might be technically deficient to what was there in the first place. Did you not understand that? What's so hard to misinterpret about my post? Maybe I should make things simpler for you, which is no problem - I don't mind at all doing that for you.

If someone on an internet forum is condescending with me I sometimes take the opportunity to be condescending back...I can see you're of a similar ilk and are happy to chip in with your own wonky points of view based on misreading my original post.

A few years ago I spent a good deal of time listening to a set up with £20,000 worth of Naim amps connected to a top of the range and rather expensive pair of Dynaudio speakers...I guess the total setup price was around £40,000 including a rather nice front end....but guess what? I didn't get on with the sound at all - technically it might have been stupendously good with pretty awesome 'oscilloscope readings' eh rolleyes.gif. Did I buy the said rig? No I didn't. I'm not going to buy a rig because despite my not liking the overall sound it's technically better than a rig I do like the sound of. I hope you can understand that???
Edited by Blue Panda - 10/9/12 at 10:39am
post #1314 of 3147
Quote:
Originally Posted by gorb View Post

objective measurements matter
subjective opinions not backed by data aren't worth much at all
Except when people demo and buy hifi equipment they like the sound of? does a THD of 0.000001 compared to 0.000002 mean I shouldn't go with the latter?
post #1315 of 3147
This debate is confusing me. (I tend to be an audio "purist", but just hear me out.)

Sure, being an audiophile means trusting the numbers, but isn't music supposed to be...well...musical?

It would be a little ignorant to say that the specifications of a certain item are the only determination of the quality of the item. That's like saying the recording engineer in a studio should never take any liberties with how he records something. Just because there is a "neutral" way of recording a drummer (or building a speaker), doesn't mean that the engineer shouldn't be allowed to get creative with the way he does it (Bonham).

Music is an art. It is a passion. It is a living, breathing beast. The equipment that is built for it is part of that art form. If the manufacturer of a certain piece wants you to hear something in a new light, who are we tell them otherwise?

Unless, of course, your journey into audiophilia isn't about music, but about math. rolleyes.gif

Edit: "Math" packs more of a punch. tongue.gif
Edited by Chunky-Bunker - 10/9/12 at 11:56am
    
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post #1316 of 3147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Panda View Post

etc. etc
Likewise, I listened to a ridiculously expensive set of Focal Scala Utopias and some horribly expensive tube amplifier that I forgot the name of. I asked the salesperson at the expo why did they sound so terribly uncomfortable and shrill, and got back a "well the cables might not have burnt in yet, they're brand new". I also originally chose a set of $400 speakers over $3000 speakers in a blind test, and later (quite recently) "downgraded" to a set of $200 speakers that are equally enjoyable to me. So yes I might be on the same boat with you on that one. And I do have the tendency to get along the least with the people most similar to me. I must apologize for missing the "to my ears" in your post, and I do have a tendency to be very antagonizing towards subjectiveness, especially if it promotes things I consider "weird" like op-amp rolling biggrin.gif
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post #1317 of 3147
Most Focal speakers have an impedance curve that resemble a roller coaster, which can be a nightmare for most tube amps.
post #1318 of 3147
Picked these up today for the subs I posted earlier thumb.gif Gotta thank the big man upstairs rolleyes.gif
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post #1319 of 3147
IMG_4069.jpg

O2 amp. giggity.
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post #1320 of 3147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porter_ View Post

O2 amp. giggity.

Awesome. I've been holding off on this until the desktop version comes out, but I might just give in because I want a new project. Did you buy or DIY?
    
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