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post #1621 of 3159
You're disillusioned and are placing a stupid amount of emphasis on the amplifier. The amplifier is an important component but nowhere near as important as you're making it out to be. The amplifier doesn't produce some super magical effect that makes music sound better. A proper amplifier will run speakers to near it's maximum potential. You can get a proper amplifier for speakers and headphones for less than the headphone is worth and it's NOT worth spending more than the headphone on the amplifier because you're getting almost all of the potential out of the headphone or speaker from decent amplification. If you want better sound you'd see much better results upgrading your headphones or speakers. Spending 2x or 10x or some stupid absurd amount like 10,000 on an amplifier for 300 dollar speakers is stupid. There's no nice way to put it. It's absurd. You're delusional if you think it's worth spending 10k on an amp for 300 dollar speakers. You'd see infinitely better results if the amp and speaker prices were swapped.

You can buy whatever you want, but if you're on a budget like 98+% of OCN, there's certain ways to spend your money that'll maximize your sound with your available funds.

It's not rocket science. No one will agree with you that the amplifier is as important as you're making it out to be. That's the simple truth and there's nothing more to say on that.
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post #1622 of 3159
Sorry Simca I will agree with him about the amplifer. I have 2 old Adcom amps. You have to hear it to understand. smile.gif
    
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post #1623 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by hertz9753 View Post

Sorry Simca I will agree with him about the amplifer. I have 2 old Adcom amps. You have to hear it to understand. smile.gif

How much do those amps cost and how much are the other solutions you've used to compare them to and what speakers are you using? Blanket statements don't help.
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post #1624 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post

You're disillusioned and are placing a stupid amount of emphasis on the amplifier. The amplifier is an important component but nowhere near as important as you're making it out to be. The amplifier doesn't produce some super magical effect that makes music sound better. A proper amplifier will run speakers to near it's maximum potential. You can get a proper amplifier for speakers and headphones for less than the headphone is worth and it's NOT worth spending more than the headphone on the amplifier because you're getting almost all of the potential out of the headphone or speaker from decent amplification. If you want better sound you'd see much better results upgrading your headphones or speakers. Spending 2x or 10x or some stupid absurd amount like 10,000 on an amplifier for 300 dollar speakers is stupid. There's no nice way to put it. It's absurd. You're delusional if you think it's worth spending 10k on an amp for 300 dollar speakers. You'd see infinitely better results if the amp and speaker prices were swapped.

You can buy whatever you want, but if you're on a budget like 98+% of OCN, there's certain ways to spend your money that'll maximize your sound with your available funds.

It's not rocket science. No one will agree with you that the amplifier is as important as you're making it out to be. That's the simple truth and there's nothing more to say on that.

My bad, I removed a sentence I had included about wildly different amounts being ridiculous, so I do agree with you on that.

The amplifier does more than you give it credit for though. Did you know that the most famous studio in the world - Abbey Road - had B&W 802 Nautilus' (£8,000) paired with Chord Electronics SPM 14000B Monoblock Power amplifiers (£14,500/pair) and that's not including the pre-amp as I can't remember what they used. And that was in their master recording and monitoring suite. I highly doubt some of the best recording engineers in the world are doing it wrongly.

Yes, you can get a 'proper' amplifier for a speaker for the same value as that speaker, but an amplifier which is slightly outclassing the speaker is always a good idea. For example, my spare room has a Musical Fidelity A3 integrated with Monitor Audio GR10s. The amplifier definitely outclasses the speaker in that situation and as a result it allows them to shine their little hearts out - and my god are they good. The trick is finding two products at roughly half your budget each, and playing with the budget. B&W 683s with an Arcam A18 don't sound too special, but Monitor Audio RX6s with a Roksan Kandy integrated sure do get the music going.

You get -as you said- "almost all" of the potential from a speaker with a cheaper amp at half the value of the speaker. But you get to hear 99% of the detail in a song with a pair of £80 Shure SE215s. Hi-fi is about that extra percentage. You can't 'get' more from an amplifier, and putting one in which is allowed free reign by its speaker is a bad idea - if your speaker still has performance to give, then hear it. I'm constantly astounded by how good some really cheap speakers are sounding because I'm putting great amps on the end of them for testing.

There does come a level with amplification where you wont get any more from a speaker, but it's higher than you may think and the difference between that level and what you consider an adequate amplifier is actually quite a lot. When you hit that top end of what the speaker can do, it comes alive. It wasn't designed to be run with a sub par amp (in most cases anyway), it was designed to be controlled properly and to sing its heart out, not just shout loudly.

A thought experiment: The Monitor Audio RX1s I mentioned. Find an amplifier which costs the same as them (£400 rrp I'm sure) which will get everything out of them.
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post #1625 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post

How much do those amps cost and how much are the other solutions you've used to compare them to and what speakers are you using? Blanket statements don't help.

Cost? $465 for both of them. The Adcom GFA 555 was recapped and damaged in shipping to another buyer, it has a couple of bent fins on the back. The Adcom GFA 5400 is orignal.

AVR-Onkyo TX-NR808
Front amp-Adcom GFA 555>Polk LSi9's(Vr3 Castle Mods)
Center amp-Adcom GFA 5400>Polk LSi9 bi-amped(Vr3 Castle Mod)
Surrounds-Polk T15's
Sub-Velodyne SPL-1000R

Just for you. wink.gif

Onkyo 603
Denon 791/1911
Polk R50 speakers
Polk Monitor 70 speakers
JBL E30 speakers

For now the Onkyo 808 will serve as my pre-amp and power my surround speakers.
    
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post #1626 of 3159
Ive been upgrading my audio equipment over the last month. The system I had currently was my first real system which ive had for 4-6 years (bought over time) but ive been itching to upgrade and finally was in a place to do so.


Before
Onkyo 806
Polk Monitor 70s
Polk CS2
Polk Monitor 40s
Klipsch Sub12


Still waiting for a couple items to arrive but this where I am at now
Emotiva UMC-200
Emotiva UPA-1 x2
Emotiva XPA-3
Polk LSi15s (upgraded crossovers and woofer)
Polk LSiC (upgraded crossover)
Polk LSi7s
Velodyne F1500 R

The UMC-200 arrives in a couple days and im waiting for my upgraded crossovers to ship back so I can get them installed. Been a fun project but im ready to be done with it now haha.
Edited by Blindsay - 3/9/13 at 8:39pm
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post #1627 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindsay View Post

Ive been upgrading my audio equipment over the last month. The system I had currently was my first real system which ive had for 4-6 years (bought over time) but ive been itching to upgrade and finally was in a place to do so.


Before
Onkyo 806
Polk Monitor 70s
Polk CS2
Polk Monitor 40s
Klipsch Sub12


Still waiting for a couple items to arrive but this where I am at now
Emotiva UMC-200
Emotiva UPA-1 x2
Emotiva XPA-3
Polk LSi15s (upgraded crossovers and woofer)
Polk LSiC (upgraded crossover)
Polk LSi7s
Velodyne F1500 R

The UMC-200 arrives in a couple days and im waiting for my upgraded crossovers to ship back so I can get them installed. Been a fun project but im ready to be done with it now haha.

Nice! One thing is wrong though. You don't need that Velodyne sub. Look deep into my dogs eyes...and send it to me. tongue.gif
    
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post #1628 of 3159
I'm not doubting that you can make your speaker shine 100% instead of 99% and never have, but IMO, it's not worth it to get that extra 1% when you can instead spend the money on a better speaker end get a few more %'s of better sound quality from a better speaker than spending a ton on a good amplifier to get that extra 1%...especially if we're talking about a 300 dollar speaker.

Now, you mentioned the B&W Speakers being powered by a 15k amp. Those are very good speakers. There's not really going too much higher in terms of speakers than those. All you have to do is focus now on the rest of your set up like speaker amps.

That said, is it worth spending 15k on the speaker amp for the Nautilus? No. It's not. But that's Abbey Road. They have the money to spend however they want to achieve whatever sound they're looking for.

Tell me you can't achieve almost the same sound from a 2-5k amp instead. I guarantee you you can.

So we can argue for that extra 1% all we want, but in reality..most of us here want to do the best we can with our funds. To do so would mean not spending a ton on the amp when the speakers can be upgraded still.

I have a pair of HE-500s. They run well off my O2 amp..but I know there is still performance to be had out of the HE-500s that I have not reached. For most people the O2 would suffice, but I'm looking at moving up to a Darkvoice 337SE amp for them. These cost almost as much as the HE-500 itself. I'm at the point where there's not much higher I can go for headphones without spending a ton more (SR007/9s).

And if I went that high, I would also need another 2-3k for a special amplifier to run them. That's clearly much more expensive than what I'm currently spending on the HE-500s so that 650 dollar amp or so seems much more cost effective than jumping to a Stax headphone.

I don't like discussing what I use in my home theater with people typically on OCN, but even there with speakers that are very ..very expensive.. The amp is significantly less than the speakers. Could we spend more and get 100% out of the speakers? Sure, but it's not worth it.

People have to decide if it's worth it for them. You just have to do your duty as an audiophile and not mislead them into thinking they're going to hear a huge and obvious difference because they won't and they'd be pressed to hear the difference unless the amp they're using now is just poor and not properly amplifying their gear.
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post #1629 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by hertz9753 View Post

Nice! One thing is wrong though. You don't need that Velodyne sub. Look deep into my dogs eyes...and send it to me. tongue.gif

Your jedi doggie mind tricks don't work on me tongue.gif


This velodyne sub may be "older" but it is still amazing, got a really good deal on it. On a side note, I would NEVER want to ship this thing lol
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post #1630 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepejovi View Post

What's with all the arguing, take a chill pill and let the morons spend their life savings on amps.

That was Simca being nice. thumb.gif We all have our needs and buget to consider when it comes to audio.
    
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