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Cable Sleeving Gallery & Discussion - Page 880

post #8791 of 14314
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350 Malibu View Post

Jamming a small amount of wing into your insulation makes your crimp stronger? Really, how so? rolleyes.gif

Take one hand, grasp a bowling ball keeping your fingers only on the outside of the ball. Then in your other hand, put your fingers IN the holes of the bowling ball. How shake both and see which one drops first.

The "fold over" method relies 100% on friction of the metal to wire sheath in only one direction of holding. The "M" crimp not only relies on friction, but because it digs in to the wire insulation, it also increases the surface area of that friction zone as well as creates 2 perpendicular points at which the wire is held. Thus, it is a stronger bond and less likely to pull out.
post #8792 of 14314
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Take one hand, grasp a bowling ball keeping your fingers only on the outside of the ball. Then in your other hand, put your fingers IN the holes of the bowling ball. How shake both and see which one drops first.

The "fold over" method relies 100% on friction of the metal to wire sheath in only one direction of holding. The "M" crimp not only relies on friction, but because it digs in to the wire insulation, it also increases the surface area of that friction zone as well as creates 2 perpendicular points at which the wire is held. Thus, it is a stronger bond and less likely to pull out.

Exactly what I'm trying to tell 350 Malibu. Heck, it's common sense that the bite is CLEARLY better than the overlap. Period. wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by 350 Malibu View Post

I never said either way was right or wrong, but how can you claim one way is 'bestest' over the other when you have nothing to prove it? Well, other than your manly pull it by hand test... tongue.gif

As far as I see, nothing does a better crimp than the oem tools. Not even the original Molex one.
Edited by adi518 - 2/21/13 at 7:20am
post #8793 of 14314
It doesn't really matter whether it's a bite or overlap crimp as long as the crimp is robust and won't pull off easily.
Black Noise
(22 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 990X Asus Rampage III Extreme EVGA 980Ti EVGA 980Ti 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
24GB Corsair Dominator GT PC3-16000 Samsung 850 EVO Crucial CT750MX300 Seagate Momentus 2TB 
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Seagate Momentus 2TB Sony Optiarc AD-7690H Slimline DVD-RW Blocks - EK Supremacy, 2 x EK FC-Titan X, EK FC... Radiators - 2 x Black Ice SR1 480, 2 x Black Ic... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Pumps - Swiftech 35X2 x 2 & Heatsinks Reservoir - EK Multioption X2 400 Advanced Fans - 20 x Noiseblocker PL2 Windows 7 Pro 64-bit 
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Black Noise
(22 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 990X Asus Rampage III Extreme EVGA 980Ti EVGA 980Ti 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
24GB Corsair Dominator GT PC3-16000 Samsung 850 EVO Crucial CT750MX300 Seagate Momentus 2TB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
Seagate Momentus 2TB Sony Optiarc AD-7690H Slimline DVD-RW Blocks - EK Supremacy, 2 x EK FC-Titan X, EK FC... Radiators - 2 x Black Ice SR1 480, 2 x Black Ic... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Pumps - Swiftech 35X2 x 2 & Heatsinks Reservoir - EK Multioption X2 400 Advanced Fans - 20 x Noiseblocker PL2 Windows 7 Pro 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
NEC MultiSync LCD2690WUXi Enermax Aurora Seasonic Platinum 1000 Case Labs TH10 & Pedestal 
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post #8794 of 14314
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350 Malibu View Post

I have to laugh every time I hear someone say their crimp tool is 'bestest of the bestest' because it dives into the insulation of the wire in the shape of an 'm'. All I can see that you are doing is tearing the insulation apart, nothing more. Saying it is stronger is pure BS without some data to back it up. The real strength of the crimp is actually on the shorter wings where there is no insulation at all, direct to the copper wire.

In fact, one of the best hand crimp tools made (by Molex, P/N 638190900) uses the fold over method on the insulation crimps, so how can someone say this is a bad thing when the designer of the connectors themselves has designed a high quality crimp tool this way.

Of course I have no data to prove this at all, but I will throw a challenge out there to anyone that might want to help. I have the above mentioned Molex crimp tool, the cheap azz PPC's Crimp tool, and unlimited access to a $25,000 pull tester. If someone will ship me their MDPC or Lutro crimper (or both, as I was unaware Lutro had a crimper) for a few days I can test the crimp strength of the resulting crimps from each of the tools above. If you have another tool to add to the mix, we can add that too.

Has anyone done or seen this testing before across the available crimp tools? I have never seen it if it has already been done, and would love to see it.

It has been done =) Take a look at this link: http://lutro0-customs.com/products/custom-sleeved-12-24pin-extension

The crimpers in that pic are only 1/4th of the total that I have used and tested. Granted I do not have an expensive puller. But I have done more sleeving then I care to admit. The only three crimpers that have not made weak crimps is MDPCs, MOLEXs, and the one I sell.

You do however have a point about the "M" Comment. The bite into the insulation is a stress relief. However for our purposes it does give the crimp a little bit more beef and it makes the wire, connector and sleeve easier to go into the connecor. As opposed to just adding two more layers like the "hans Long crimper" which is the one perfpc and frozen and ftw sold.

Through my research I have found that the major portion on the strength of the a crimp is in the second smaller crimp that holds onto the wire and creates the actual contact with the terminal for electricity to flow. This is one of the reasons I like to strip my wires to 3mm instead of the conventional two, so it has just a little more to hold onto. The crimpter sold in the LC Store, MDPCs, and the Molex crimper has their die set up just right so that the outter long wings will hug the outter insulation and then really crimp down on the inner crimper to make maximum contact with the wire.

Now I am not about to go around and say whats the best and what not, but from my own testing and just plain use over and over the crimper that MDPC found and altered a bit and creates a "bite" and Hard second crimp have been the way to go. (same as the one I sell)

If you would like I can send you a crimper for free so you can get a good look at it and do some testing. I intended on doing a crimper shootout one day, but with some of the drama lately and the store opening up I have been busy. But I will do one eventually when I do the "how to crimp" Video. But you are more then welcome to borrow my Whole collection of crimpers if you wanted to provide me some actual hard data, as all I was going to do is tie a crimp up and start adding small ammount of weight untill it broke and then recording it. ( Kinda a use what you have type thing lol)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwright0291 View Post

Quick question...is this..
http://lutro0-customs.theshoppad.com/#/product/4mm-tight-braid-a-v-pet-blue-black-1ft
The same size as this..
http://lutro0-customs.theshoppad.com/#/product/550-paracord-royal-blue-new-stock-25-feet
.???
I'm hoping so because I want to incorporate 1 or 2 strands into my black and blue 24 pin
Thanks guys!

The specialized pet sleeve is normally used for audio cables, however if you matched the colors well I think it would look good. But the diameter difference between the two is minimal.
post #8795 of 14314
Bottom line: What ever tool, at what ever price, works for you and you are happy with it (and the method that it crimps), then that is the best tool for you.

Me, I prefer the "M" crimp over the "rolled over" crimp, and thus the $70 MDPC or even the $45 FTWPC crimper is better, to me, than a $250 Molex crimper.

But then again, I like Ford over Chevy, Blue over Red, and Lobster over Steak. biggrin.gif
post #8796 of 14314
I think you guys are missing my point...

I am not referring to the crimp around the bare copper conductor, I am referring to the crimp around the insulation.

Please refer back to this previously posted image. Both appear to have a good bite at the conductor crimp around the bare wire, however one claims to have a better crimp because it is "Biting into the insulation"...



Now please tell me, if both crimps are equal at the conductor, how does the crimp at the insulation, being rolled/folded or 'm' shape make a difference in the crimp strength at the conductor. I would agree 100% that the crimp around the copper conductor makes all the world of difference, but the longer wings that tear into your insulation add probably nothing to the overall pull strength of the copper conductor crimp.
post #8797 of 14314
Quote:
Originally Posted by adi518 View Post

See? My point proven. tongue.gif

I can also get a "Pressmaster" tool which afaik, is the real maker for the Molex tool. I could compare it just for the fun of it.

You have proven, nothing...
post #8798 of 14314
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350 Malibu View Post

I think you guys are missing my point...

I am not referring to the crimp around the bare copper conductor, I am referring to the crimp around the insulation.

Now please tell me, if both crimps are equal at the conductor, how does the crimp at the insulation, being rolled/folded or 'm' shape make a difference in the crimp strength at the conductor. I would agree 100% that the crimp around the copper conductor makes all the world of difference, but the longer wings that tear into your insulation add probably nothing to the overall pull strength of the copper conductor crimp.

It doesn't ... at the point of contact where the actual wire meets the connector ... but it IS stronger with the "M" at the point of where the crimp at the insulation is. Since most of the stress will be first happen at the insulation crimp (ie pulling out of the wire), having a stronger crimp there is better, because it will cause less stress (ie if the 100% friction crimp of the "roller over" crimp fails) on the wire to connector crimp.

See: Force of Friction Parallel vs Perpendicular
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 2/21/13 at 8:05am
post #8799 of 14314
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

It doesn't ... at the point of contact where the actual wire meets the connector ... but it IS stronger with the "M" at the point of where the crimp at the insulation is. Since most of the stress will be first happen at the insulation crimp (ie pulling out of the wire), having a stronger crimp there is better, because it will cause less stress (ie if the 100% friction crimp of the "roller over" crimp fails) on the wire to connector crimp.

Thank you for at least showing some logic, without throwing out unproven opinions.

I'd still love to run some tests to see if there is any difference, and if so how much. I don't think a simple tug with the hand is proving a thing, other then the conductor crimp is strong, but we will see.
post #8800 of 14314
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350 Malibu View Post

Thank you for at least showing some logic, without throwing out unproven opinions.

I'd still love to run some tests to see if there is any difference, and if so how much. I don't think a simple tug with the hand is proving a thing, other then the conductor crimp is strong, but we will see.

To be honest, I don't think that it really matters, not for simple cable sleeving inside a computer, if it's a "rolled over" or a "M" crimp. Odds are, people are going to sleeve their cables, put them in place, and leave them, and go "Ohhh ahhh" at them through a plexi-glass windows 99.99999% of the time. Maybe a couple times a year they will open the case and mess with another component lightly touch the wires, or maybe unplug the sleeved cable (hopefully using the plastic connector and not just yank the wires), but generally, they aren't going to be stressed at all.

Now for a MIL-SPEC rating or something crazy, then maybe one or the other is better and it would matter, but as I said before, what ever works for you and you are happy with, that is the "correct" way to do it. thumb.gif
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