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60Hz vs 120Hz Explained - Page 13

post #121 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by senna89;15050894 
whit only one card, 120Hz monitors is the best choise for games ?

i think with one card...that isn't super highend..its a tough call. IPS might be visually more pleasing in RPG/MMO games..while a 120hz might be better in racers/shooters. 120hz loses its margin of benefit (vs. IPS) the lower your frames get..so if you are pulling 60fps..i think its better to stay with IPS..if you can pull 80+ id go with 120hz...

  • if you care more about image quality/color/viewing angles (or do a lot of photography).. probably go with IPS
  • if you care more about smoothness/responsiveness (anything that requires fast motion).. probably go with 120hz
  • if you mostly play MMO/RPG/RTS probably go with IPS (better image quality will give pretty environment/surroundings)
  • if you mostly play shooters or racers probably go with 120hz (significantly smoother than 60hz..a lot less tearing)
  • if you have 1 gpu and run newer games on high graphical settings and can only pull 60 fps...probably go IPS
  • if you have 1 gpu and normally reduce graphical settings on newer games for more frames and can pull like 80 fps or more...probably go 120hz
  • if you are a casual gamer or just not super serious..probably go IPS
  • if you are a serious gamer or play competitive CS or Quake (any older games)..go 120hz
  • if you have 1 GFX (low to med-highend)...probably go IPS
  • if you have SLI (mid to highend)...probably go 120hz

just my opinion after everything i have read/researched.

PS: Why the f*** doesn't any local retail store have a 120hz monitor on display...damn it..I guess ill have to buy it first to test it out. I've seen IPS and it is very pretty..just need to compare.

Someone needs to make a 120hz IPS already....ffs...I'd drop big $$$ ones for that.
Edited by malikq86 - 9/24/11 at 5:35pm
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post #122 of 182
Random question...I've read some posts that suggest this:

Does 60hz look better on a 60hz monitor vs. running 60hz on a 120hz monitor (ie: down setting your max hz)?
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post #123 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by malikq86;15054023 
Random question...I've read some posts that suggest this:

Does 60hz look better on a 60hz monitor vs. running 60hz on a 120hz monitor (ie: down setting your max hz)?

It will look the same. Or it should.
post #124 of 182
[quote=malikq86;15052572
  1. if you care more about image quality/color/viewing angles (or do a lot of photography).. probably go with IPS
  2. if you care more about smoothness/responsiveness (anything that requires fast motion).. probably go with 120hz
  3. if you mostly play MMO/RPG/RTS probably go with IPS (better image quality will give pretty environment/surroundings)
  4. if you mostly play shooters or racers probably go with 120hz (significantly smoother than 60hz..a lot less tearing)
  5. if you have 1 gpu and run newer games on high graphical settings and can only pull 60 fps...probably go IPS
  6. if you have 1 gpu and normally reduce graphical settings on newer games for more frames and can pull like 80 fps or more...probably go 120hz
  7. if you are a casual gamer or just not super serious..probably go IPS
  8. if you are a serious gamer or play competitive CS or Quake (any older games)..go 120hz
  9. if you have 1 GFX (low to med-highend)...probably go IPS
  10. if you have SLI (mid to highend)...probably go 120hz

[/quote]
Just wanted to take a moment and give my opinion on some of these points since i own a 120hz monitor, an IPS monitor, and a couple crappy TN monitors:
  1. True, except that some of the top end 120hz TN monitors (like the S27A950D) are very comparable to many IPS panels. They might not be good enough for color-critical tasks like serious graphical and/or photography work, but certainly won't leave anything to be desired in games and windows.
  2. Spot on.
  3. I have to disagree. In MMO's and RPG games you still have the benefit of no screen tearing without input lag (huge deal for RPG games), less ghosting, and more smoothness. In RTS games 120hz monitors can significantly improve micro. The mouse will feel more responsive and quickly boxing units will be way more smooth, and when you're quickly moving the camera around you get less blur on the units, and all the benefits listed for RPG/MMO's still apply.
  4. Truth.
  5. Even if you can't run a game above 60fps, it still feels more smooth. It also removes screen tearing in cutscenes (or anytime your FPS spikes over 60). I just tested this out in Counter strike. I limited my fps to 30fps running at 120hz and compared that to running the game at 30fps and 60hz, and the former felt significantly smoother and had less motion blur. Anything that's not governed by FPS (like some UI-elements the mouse in some games, and windows) will always feel better on a 120hz screen regardless of FPS.
  6. You could also make the argument that if you have better equipment you might want to go with eyefinity or a significantly higher resolution single screen to take advantage of your powerful rig wink.gif. Just goes back to individual preference though.
  7. Why not just go with some low to mid-range TN panel then? What's the point of spending more money for a better screen if they won't even notice the difference? Maybe i'm misinterpreting what you mean by "casual."
  8. Why does it have to be an older game? It's not difficult to get more than 60 fps in modern games with even a mediocre rig as long as you turn your settings down. Competitive gamers shouldn't care about having more eye-candy if it's going to be a disadvantage for them.
  9. Question #5
  10. Question #6

Edited by SeanPoe - 9/24/11 at 6:38pm
post #125 of 182
Hey Sean,

Which IPS and 120hz monitor do you own? Is the 120hz your primary? which one do you use more often? I take it you use the 120hz for gaming and the IPS for work? what kind of rig do you have?

Just wondering. I don't agree/disagree with anything you have stated. Everything is very subjective.. and this whole IPS vs. 120hz gives me a headache. Its funny how some people are totally like "IPS is def. better overall" and then the next post is someone saying "120hz is def. better overall" ...makes a decision to buy a new monitor even harder.

I've heard some people that own both, say they use IPS for everything but FPS games..while other, who own both, say they use 120hz for everything but work excel and photography.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanPoe;15054609 
Even if you can't run a game above 60fps, it still feels more smooth.

I realize that 120hz will always feel smoother than 60hz even when you are only pulling 60fps..but how much smoother? Do you not notice diminishing returns the lower your fps gets? I ask.. because at a certain point..don't you think IQ > marginal smoothness (i: at 60fps maybe)?

FYI - I am planning on getting an IPS or 120hz soon..it seem like you favor 120hz more - correct? I value the opinion of people that have both kinds of monitors more than others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanPoe;15054609 
Why does it have to be an older game? It's not difficult to get more than 60 fps in modern games with even a mediocre rig as long as you turn your settings down. Competitive gamers shouldn't care about having more eye-candy if it's going to be a disadvantage for them.

I don't mean just older games..I meant it in addition to any new game that can push 60+fps (either due to your rig or due to lower settings). I just used CS and Quake as an example..since I know a lot of people play both games competitively.

Yes, I agree - competitive gamers (regardless of the game) don't care about eye-candy and would rather turn settings down..hence more fps..hence better to have 120hz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanPoe;15054609 
I have to disagree. In MMO's and RPG games you still have the benefit of no screen tearing without input lag (huge deal for RPG games), less ghosting, and more smoothness. In RTS games 120hz monitors can significantly improve micro. The mouse will feel more responsive and quickly boxing units will be way more smooth, and when you're quickly moving the camera around you get less blur on the units, and all the benefits listed for RPG/MMO's still apply.

Yes of course. I know 120hz will make everything smoother regardless of game genre/frames. But there is a very subjective element of what you value more..and what becomes more noticeable. I think in RPG/MMO..the developers put a lot of time in making things colorful and visually pleasing...they want the environment and surrounding to be immersive...so even if 120hz makes the game smoother...perhaps IPS image quality would be more beneficial to some people.

I picture this whole IPS vs 120hz like a sliding scale...with diminishing returns on both sides...if you know what i mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanPoe;15054609 
Maybe i'm misinterpreting what you mean by "casual."

I guess someone that plays games..but maybe not too serious about them..also doesn't spend most of there time on pc gaming.
Edited by malikq86 - 9/24/11 at 7:32pm
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post #126 of 182
I have a Dell U2311H, the new(ish) Samsung s27a950d, and a bunch of low-to-mid-range Asus TN monitors. The U2311H is obviously not the best IPS in the world by any means, but its colors are hardly better than my Samsung. And by that, i mean you would only notice if you had them side-by-side displaying the same thing. Accurate color reproduction isn't even that big of a deal for games/media, a lot of people find accurate colors to be flat and ugly. It just comes down to preference. I think there's a line where you can just say the colors are "good enough." Very few TN panels even come close to this line, the only one that I've seen in person that i think does come close to this line is the Samsung. Because of all these reasons i prefer the Samsung and use it as my main display. Even in windows you can feel the benefit of 120hz: everything is amazingly smooth.

Most people that say IPS monitors are better than 120hz monitors probably aren't as sensitive to the problems that come along with 60hz. They also probably have this idea that the 120hz monitor is going to look like some washed out 100$ TN from Best-buy. If you don't notice screen tearing, ghosting, and motion blur in games, then 120hz would probably be a waste of money.

Developers might put a lot of time into the colors and graphics in RPG games, but they're going to feel like crap on a 60hz monitor even if they look amazing. By this i mean you're going to have motion blur, you're going to have screen tearing (or input lag if you turn vsync on). The only time i'd say that going with an IPS panel for RPG games would be better is if you're also increasing the resolution too and can stomach using Vsync. I personally wouldn't prefer this, but i can see it's appeal.

It is a sliding scale. And up until the release of the Samsung 120hz monitor i always felt like an E-IPS panel with low input lag like the U2311H had an edge. However, the colors on the Samsung are comparable to an IPS with the benefit of 120hz and lower input lag. So it completely shifts the balance of the older scale that says you can't have both.
Edited by SeanPoe - 9/25/11 at 4:48am
post #127 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanPoe;15055200 
It is a sliding scale. And up until the release of the Samsung 120hz monitor i always felt like an E-IPS panel with low input lag like the U2311H had an edge. However, the colors on the Samsung are comparable to an IPS with the benefit of 120hz lower input lag. So it completely shifts the balance of the older scale that says you can't have both.

Well if Samsung is the exception and not the standard of 120hz quality..than I guess we agree on most points. I've never seen it in person..but it sounds like it has the closest benefits of both worlds. I can see why you prefer it to all other monitors.

Besides that Samsung 120hz, which for some, like myself is out of price range...if you had to pick 1 monitor for overall pc use (with like a GTX 570; not SLI - pulls about 50-70fps on max setting on most modern games)..would you go for a mid-range (~$350) IPS or 120hz monitor? that's what I am really interested in asking you about.

^ lol, i'd like to hear your comment/advice for a new pc build of mine. Thanks for your insight.
Edited by malikq86 - 9/24/11 at 7:50pm
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post #128 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by malikq86;15055284 
if you had to pick 1 monitor for overall pc use (with like a GTX 570; not SLI - pulls about 50-70fps on max setting on most modern games)..would you go for a mid-range (~$350) IPS or 120hz monitor? that's what I am really interested in asking you about.

Then it becomes a matter of personal preference.

Really comes down to three different choices:
  1. Do you get annoyed by screen tearing, motion blur and ghosting/input lag in the games you play?
  2. Do you want the best color reproduction and contrast you can get and aren't at all sensitive to the problems with 60hz screens AND don't mind having a monitor with high input lag?
  3. Do you want a balance between the two (but you will still have all the problems associated with 60hz)?
  • If you chose the first one, go with a 120hz monitor.
  • If you chose the second one, go with a high-end IPS panel (expensive)
  • If you chose the third one go with the Dell U2311H.


The third option is really such a nice monitor overall (and is very affordable) i wouldn't recommend going with a different IPS panel unless you're doing color-critical work too or increase the resolution.

Personally though, I'd choose the 120hz monitor over the U2311H just because i really dislike screen tearing, input lag, and i love the smoothness of running games at 120fps on a 120hz monitor (and i care more about quality game-play than i do having perfect color reproduction or increased resolution).

If you can't afford the S23A950D (which is $449 right now) and you want a 120hz monitor go with the ASUS 120hz monitor (it's the cheapest and it's decent). You could most likely sell the active-shutter glasses that comes with the 950D if you don't ever want to use 3D though. Technically the monitor itself is only like 330$ and the glasses are like $120.
Edited by SeanPoe - 9/25/11 at 4:49am
post #129 of 182
Thanks Sean.

Right now I'm looking at:
  • Asus PA238Q (IPS, $270)
  • Dell U2311H (IPS, $285)
  • HP zr24w (IPS, 24", 1900x1200, I can get it for $250)
  • Acer GD235HZbid (120hz, $330)
  • Planar SA2311W (120hz, $315)
  • Asus VG236HE (120hz, $280)
Thoughts? I assume you recommend the Asus VG236HE? I know if I could pull 120fps that would be a no brainier.

With a GTX 570..if I really can't push more than 70fps..perhaps you would recommend the Dell U2311H then?
Edited by malikq86 - 9/24/11 at 9:18pm
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post #130 of 182
Yeah, i'd personally prefer the Asus VG236HE (if you can't afford the s23a950d)
Edited by SeanPoe - 9/25/11 at 5:06am
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