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post #4371 of 5945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aparition View Post

Actually I liked Black Road. You start out with nothing surrounded by enemies. Find a pistol. Then you have the option of grinding or taking a huge risk and ambushing some bandits for a rifle of some sort.
In 2.0 as Recon I managed to best 3 bandits with the pistol you find at the start. Then I found a Loner party being attacked by 20 dogs and 5 boars. Only one Stalker died out of that ordeal, but I nabbed a silenced rifle. All in about 20 minutes.

Then the grind began tongue.gif

But still, its terrible. The only thing this start does is make it longer for the actual game to actually start.

LURK was insanely hard from the beginning to the end. There were no valleys nor peaks. It didn't really matter the equipment you had, because the enemies scaled with you. Here? The game simply cheats. 5 dogs + 2 bloocksuckers + 3 fleshes hitting a guy for like 5 - 10 seconds.. .and he didn't die. Yet when I shoot them they get killed easier... and mutants destroy me if they get in CQC (I'm sweating every time the damn Armsel Protecta jams... god, so unreliable! Even at +85% state it jams every once in a while! Luckily I found a customised one that I could repair with a repair kit I found, too...).

I still don't know what is "fun" about this mod. It reminds me of any role playing game in which you need to level up and, thus, you grind non-stop. At least there you had easier means to grind... here? I just go roaming around and hope to find human targets... the more the better... but nope, they just give me trio's of bloodsuckers. And they aren't fun... nor profitable.
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post #4372 of 5945
Actually I was thinking about the item list for Misery last night (for whatever reason).
I think it would add a lot of the fun factor back if Repair Kits were more powerful. Leave the other little repair items on the main traders but make Repair Kits primarily lootable, somewhat easy to use, and very effective, and very profitable selling to Stalkers. Make them unprofitable selling to primary traders.

Make repair kits a sought after item, more common on Elite Stalkers and near end-game, and rare on lower level NPC's, with weaker kits more available the same way.

That would boost the trading done between stalkers and make gear maintenance easier to manage. As you would need to use the Mechanics more to do early game repairs. Pair that with discount missions so you can eventually get basic repairs done cheaply.

Now you have the option of running back to the traders for repair or using that valuable item for money or repairs.
I think it would reduce some of the pack rat mentality that MISERY brings to the game. Then in late game you might have a few repair kits, so you spend more time completing missions and less time juggling 20 items to repair your pistol.

Kind of makes sense too from a flow perspective. In early game you can only afford or find Glue to try to patch up your gear, using anything you can find to keep your stuff working. Then late game you have better access to items designed for repairs.

I think Misery 1 had this kind of approach at one point. I'm all for expanding the repair kits ability, but I really don't want to juggle 50 items to get my pistol repaired %75.
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post #4373 of 5945
The reason Bloodsuckers are so hard is because:

- They made them literally invisible (removed all particle effects, literally increased the length of time they can remain invisible by orders of magnitude, and cut their "blink" time WAY down aka the time when they flash back to being visible)
- THEY ARE INVINCIBLE WHEN INVISIBLE!!!

When I tweaked the monsters, I made the bloodsuckers somewhere in-between vanilla and 2.1, cutting the length of the invisibility period to a little over the halfway point between Vanilla and 2.1, doubling the blink time (which is still less than the vanilla), increasing the particles to ~90 or so (vanilla is like 300), and most importantly, making them VULNERABLE when invisible (they take 2x as much damage when invisible but can move 1.6x faster and attack 20% faster, than when visible)
   
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post #4374 of 5945
Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

The reason Bloodsuckers are so hard is because:

- They made them literally invisible (removed all particle effects, literally increased the length of time they can remain invisible by orders of magnitude, and cut their "blink" time WAY down aka the time when they flash back to being visible)
- THEY ARE INVINCIBLE WHEN INVISIBLE!!!

When I tweaked the monsters, I made the bloodsuckers somewhere in-between vanilla and 2.1, cutting the length of the invisibility period to a little over the halfway point between Vanilla and 2.1, doubling the blink time (which is still less than the vanilla), increasing the particles to ~90 or so (vanilla is like 300), and most importantly, making them VULNERABLE when invisible (they take 2x as much damage when invisible but can move 1.6x faster and attack 20% faster, than when visible)

Bloodsuckers were like this in vanilla CoP too, except they moved slower and had a longer blink time.
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post #4375 of 5945
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredgunner View Post

^ You can find weapons in stashes, and they're all in perfect condition. I've been rebalancing it for the last few days now, artifacts are now very valuable as they should be, and they no longer weigh a ton. The older guns, especially the worn/old models, are all much cheaper. At the start of the game you can find a few for sale at under 6000 RU, and if you do the conversion you'll see how cheap that is. On the other hand, the high end stuff is really high end, some of them more pricey than they were before. I didn't modify trader inventories yet.

I can't figure out how to make it so Controllers and Poltergeists don't drain your health in 3 seconds when you approach them. Some of the mutants are more dangerous now, I need to test out this Chimera. I wish I could do something about the inventory... the game really needs an RPG style inventory with sorting.

It seems like one of my major gripes with this game has always been the inventory. Moving stuff into stashes or back and forth is always so much trouble, plus all your gear just lumps into your inventory for the most part. I'm really expecting L.A. to have some fixes for this. I like to collect and hoard things in the STALKER games, but moving massive amounts of ammo to inventories or back and forth has never been easy. So many 1000s of clicks have been added to my mouse just from that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post

I've been playing Misery 2.1 for a few hours and... the name should be changed to "Grinding misery". The reason is pretty obvious: if you want to do anything, you have to grind to death and pretty much kill anything that moves (provided that you are shooting them from cover, if they are human). Which is... BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING. You see, Stalker has a very very unique atmosphere AND one of the best ballistics and gun mechanics ever to be implemented in an FPS.. that gets ruined because:

a) You have to micro-manage like a robot your damn inventory. Its even more complicated than in vanilla Stalker because you have like 50200501040 items that are almost equal and, once you consider that Stalker has no means of "sorting" anything into the inventory... good luck not spending 10 minutes looking for whatever you need in that particular moment.

b) You have to do circles around base looting EVERYTHING and selling it. You make a little profit per round, and thus you can keep going. Just the food you require per day costs a few thousand RU... so, you better kill some fleshes (they are SUPER cost effective. Well, at least you make a profit on each, if you use shot. Forget about non-shot projectiles. Its a waste... like not going for headshots on humans). But still, its TEDIOUS because you can't do anything else unless you want to reload like 27 times. It feels like any RPG in which you redo an area because you want to level up... but without leveling up.

c) Have to lose like a ton of time every single instance you want to cook something, or repair, or even use a medkit. Come on, the medkit takes enough time to heal up that its already useless in a fight... no need for the screen to go blank and take forever. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
---

I don't know. Together, the mod doesn't make sense. It feels as artificial, and its not fun because you break the whole gameplay for it. Why? Its simple.

a) You can't go artifact fishing. Heck, you can't even get the simple "find the glowing artifact at the boat" because it will kill you. Even if you have the required container (2000 RU, and several extra KG of weight) it harms you A LOT. I'm not sure I broke even once we factor the medkit (or 2) I used (1.5k each), + tobacco (for rad poison) + ammo to kill the stalker stealers.

But even that one, which is like free money in Stalker vanilla... you require the container. Gasmask helps, too... but not that much if its broken, because you won't see anything in it. So, you have no headlamp... AND the glass on your gasmask is broken... AND you are getting rad poisoning... AND 3 ugly guys wait you outside the boy. Yes, reloading 10 times was fun. rolleyes.gif

What about the other artifacts? Lets see... Petruha? (loner that gets into boiler anomaly, you rescue, and gives you a fireball). The fire "aura" (not the flamers, just the place being hot) toasts you in very few seconds. No time to get in and out unless you want to cook your armor + helmet + all your hp. Even if you live it will cost you more than 5k just to repair your (already pretty bad) gear.

What about the cave in which there is a body, below the burnt farmstead? Acid almost completely insta-kills you.

And son.

Ok, so, deffinitely no artifact hunting.

b) Mutant hunting is dangerous... and not very lucrative. Also, the stuff you get is only worth money (and weights a ton) and thus you will advance super duper slowly (I mean.. if you go corpse-looting, you will find useful loot, like food, ammo and others...). Its hard to get a decent shotgun in good shape (I started as a sniper, so I still have the sawn off. Yes, its like the worse thing ever but I have yet to find anything better that doesn't jam every time), and with only 2 cartridges on the sawn-off, and with the groups of mutants... well, lets just say that even 4 fleshes are dangerous if you don't find something to juke them (like a tiny wall). Shooting them from far away its a total waste of ammo (and rifle ammo is expensive, at 60 RU / bullet (yes, I've calculated the benefits per run, trust me). You need more than 3 to kill a simple flesh, provided you miss none. The meat itself is worth less than the ammo... and the hide is worth double... but, even if it takes you 4-5 shots to kill one, not worth the risks (you only need 1 sawn-off shot to kill it. Up close and personal).

c) Hunting people is.... not good. Their weapons are useless (and sell in the 3 digits. Most of the time below 500. So, you need 5-12 weapons to pay ONLY for your food), and their loots isn't any good. People will shoot at you... and they move, and hide. This means that you will need to repair your armor (I'm not. I can't) AND weapon, and will expend a lot of ammo (with sniper a lot less than with the others... I can only imagine how frustrating it has to be with any other class... specially when they shoot at you from a long distance and non-sniper weapons have terrible accuracy at range at the beginning).

So, what the heck do you do to make a living? Well.... you roam around staying out of trouble... and, when you hear gunshots... you go there, to check the results of the battle from a distance, and scavenge everything you can. Yes, it sucks. A lot.

----

All in all, the game and the experience is totally ruined because of something artificial that has been forced into the game. I mean, a game needs to flow naturally.. and Misery doesn't. A few things I think the team should look into:

a) Grinding is BOOOOOOOOOOOORING.

b) Medkit and cooking mechanics take far too long. They shouldn't take any time at all... or, when cooking, you should be able to do 10 flesh meats at a time. More BOOOOOOOOOOOOORING here.

c) The game shouldn't look artificial. As a matter of fact, the game isn't difficult at all.

Did you by chance play the first Misery? Do you think it was better/worse than this version? I remember the beginning of the first Misery was pretty brutal and a grindfest, but once you got some armor it was much better. At least I played with the Bandit jacket for too long on my playthrough, and died to anything in 1-2 hits, that made for a lot of reloading. Finally found a basic suit of armor and I could at least survive encounters, but there was still lots of running back and forth between loot piles to gain ammo. I did that until I found out about selling grenades... made my fortune that way lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

The reason Bloodsuckers are so hard is because:

- They made them literally invisible (removed all particle effects, literally increased the length of time they can remain invisible by orders of magnitude, and cut their "blink" time WAY down aka the time when they flash back to being visible)
- THEY ARE INVINCIBLE WHEN INVISIBLE!!!

When I tweaked the monsters, I made the bloodsuckers somewhere in-between vanilla and 2.1, cutting the length of the invisibility period to a little over the halfway point between Vanilla and 2.1, doubling the blink time (which is still less than the vanilla), increasing the particles to ~90 or so (vanilla is like 300), and most importantly, making them VULNERABLE when invisible (they take 2x as much damage when invisible but can move 1.6x faster and attack 20% faster, than when visible)

Bloodsuckers are tough as it is, in SGM they are completely invisible, but you can hear them running and huffing as they move around. At least you can shoot toward there sound when they are coming at you, I guess the red crosshair also gives them away a bit too but at least you have something to go on (sound) when they are coming at you. Completely invisible, and no sound sounds lame, would you have to rely on "battle" music to even know you are being engaged? If you don't even know you are being hunted until they hit you, you are probably just about dead at that point.

I pretty much expect some grinding in Misery 2, as it was in Misery 1, but it should taper off toward mid/endgame when you can kill effectively and have decent equipment.

Looking forward to Boredgunner's fixes, then I'll pick it up and see what's what biggrin.gif
Edited by Faster_is_better - 3/24/14 at 10:12am
post #4376 of 5945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster_is_better View Post

It seems like one of my major gripes with this game has always been the inventory. Moving stuff into stashes or back and forth is always so much trouble, plus all your gear just lumps into your inventory for the most part. I'm really expecting L.A. to have some fixes for this. I like to collect and hoard things in the STALKER games, but moving massive amounts of ammo to inventories or back and forth has never been easy. So many 1000s of clicks have been added to my mouse just from that.
Did you by chance play the first Misery? Do you think it was better/worse than this version? I remember the beginning of the first Misery was pretty brutal and a grindfest, but once you got some armor it was much better. At least I played with the Bandit jacket for too long on my playthrough, and died to anything in 1-2 hits, that made for a lot of reloading. Finally found a basic suit of armor and I could at least survive encounters, but there was still lots of running back and forth between loot piles to gain ammo. I did that until I found out about selling grenades... made my fortune that way lol.
Bloodsuckers are tough as it is, in SGM they are completely invisible, but you can hear them running and huffing as they move around. At least you can shoot toward there sound when they are coming at you, I guess the red crosshair also gives them away a bit too but at least you have something to go on (sound) when they are coming at you. Completely invisible, and no sound sounds lame, would you have to rely on "battle" music to even know you are being engaged? If you don't even know you are being hunted until they hit you, you are probably just about dead at that point.

I pretty much expect some grinding in Misery 2, as it was in Misery 1, but it should taper off toward mid/endgame when you can kill effectively and have decent equipment.

Looking forward to Boredgunner's fixes, then I'll pick it up and see what's what biggrin.gif

Yes, I finished Misery 1. And I enjoyed it a lot, although it had its fair share of problems, specially some unbalances (that I won't speak off because that was some time ago and I could be mistaken regarding the details). The game was more or less like LURK (the hardcore mod for SOC), but grinding wasn't a necessity. You just knew that in order to do certain tasks you needed certain equipment... but you weren't roaming around the map with no real objectives that pass the day with a profit.

I can tell you I've played plenty of mods... and I like to grind some more or some less. In cop, specially, I tend to grind enough so that I have a more or less upgraded weapon AND a decent armor. This means I spend a few more (ingame) days than I should to scavenge all the anomalies several times so I can make a nice amount of money.

What I have done so far in Misery 2.1?

a) Bought only 1 weapon (a WWII semi-auto sniper rifle), and 0 suits, nor expend a dime at the repair-man. I have found neither on stashes.

b) Only scavenged for artifacts on radiation-based anomalies... cause they are the only ones you can actually do without real equipment.

c) Completed the missing stalkers mission, and cleared the bloodsucker nest.

d) Clear the Mercenary camps once I bought that WWII semi-auto sniper rifle. Yes, its THAT awesome.

I've spent enough hours that in Vanilla I'd be checking the Jupiter plant... and in any other mod I would have started Yanov. Its been like... 10 ingame days?

PS: game says "zone time: 1 months time"
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All in all, the mod is off in plenty of ways. For instance: I have 0 armor (well, not 0 since I have a kevlar plate on the suit), because my initial suit is 100% damaged, and I carry no helmet (the gasmask has broken glass, and I see crap with it, and the other is 100% damaged)... yet I can get into firefights and walk away. Sure, I know exactly how to do so because STEALTH REALLY WORKS IN THIS MOD (and its awesome). Truly, you can walk by the side of some enemies and they won't see you provided you walk while crouch. The only problem comes when you load a game, that the AI restarts... and thus you will get insta-spotted if you aren't covered... but that isn't too bad because bushes do cover sight.

So, gunfights? Not that hard. If you have played Stalker a lot you know, by default, which are winning locations and which ones aren't. The different here is that stealth works... which means that you REQUIRE to move around positions if you assault a camp full of enemies, because they throw grenades to the last seen position. The real problem arrived at the dump station... because in vanilla you have like 5-7 mercs... whereas on Misery 2.1 there were double than that, and all very well armed. I had to basically exploit the game (killed them from within. There is a pipeline that you can stay in, covered, and just make noise so they go towards you). Actually.. gunfights is easy because you don't get that much damage. I have 0 armod except for a kevlar plate that I found, yet I don't die that badly. Maybe later on the enemies will be spot on and I'll die a lot, I have no idea.

Mutants? Cats, boars, dogs and pseudo-dogs are lethal. You need a more than decent shotgun (not a 2-barreled one) to deal with them with certain guarantees, unless you find a high spot and you just bug them. Bloodsuckers aren't fun at all... because I have yet to see any that isn't invisible all the time. In vanilla and any other mods they aren't invisible unless they spot you... but there they will attack anything, which means that they are travelling the map (in packs of 3)... and because they make close to no sound... you just notice they are around you, and then you die.

Controllers... I haven't faced the one in Zaton, not yet. I know the blue poltergeist in the antennas eats you alive (can't kill it fast enough for his aura to eat my brains), and the controller will do so faster. The controller is inside a cave so you really have to get close to him to kill him... which isn't good.

Anomalies: the only ones you can do are the radiation-based, once you have a lot of tobacco. The others... forget it. A jellyfish goes for 2.5K... if I have to waste 1 medkit + bandage + other stuff just to get a similarly priced item... then I won't go into the anomalies. Not worth it.
Edited by prava - 3/24/14 at 10:58am
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post #4377 of 5945
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post


So, gunfights? Not that hard. If you have played Stalker a lot you know, by default, which are winning locations and which ones aren't. The different here is that stealth works... which means that you REQUIRE to move around positions if you assault a camp full of enemies, because they throw grenades to the last seen position. The real problem arrived at the dump station... because in vanilla you have like 5-7 mercs... whereas on Misery 2.1 there were double than that, and all very well armed. I had to basically exploit the game (killed them from within. There is a pipeline that you can stay in, covered, and just make noise so they go towards you). Actually.. gunfights is easy because you don't get that much damage. I have 0 armod except for a kevlar plate that I found, yet I don't die that badly. Maybe later on the enemies will be spot on and I'll die a lot, I have no idea.

The way I have it now, if you have no armor then you won't be eating bullets. Bullet count seems to be even between the player and NPCs, it's quite low overall so you'll want to avoid being shot. Seems good so far, like Mod Pack 2013 for SoC except with better weapon handling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post


Mutants? Cats, boars, dogs and pseudo-dogs are lethal. You need a more than decent shotgun (not a 2-barreled one) to deal with them with certain guarantees, unless you find a high spot and you just bug them. Bloodsuckers aren't fun at all... because I have yet to see any that isn't invisible all the time. In vanilla and any other mods they aren't invisible unless they spot you... but there they will attack anything, which means that they are travelling the map (in packs of 3)... and because they make close to no sound... you just notice they are around you, and then you die.

Controllers... I haven't faced the one in Zaton, not yet. I know the blue poltergeist in the antennas eats you alive (can't kill it fast enough for his aura to eat my brains), and the controller will do so faster. The controller is inside a cave so you really have to get close to him to kill him... which isn't good.

Cats and dogs go down very easily now, after my tweaking. These petty creatures shouldn't be bullet sponges. I haven't found any Bloodsuckers yet to test. I know how to change the radius for the telepathic attack from Controllers and Poltergeists, but still nothing for damage. They're easy enough to take out from a distance though since they're so slow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post


Anomalies: the only ones you can do are the radiation-based, once you have a lot of tobacco. The others... forget it. A jellyfish goes for 2.5K... if I have to waste 1 medkit + bandage + other stuff just to get a similarly priced item... then I won't go into the anomalies. Not worth it.

I made artifacts worthwhile now. They're worth a lot, though I didn't get around to changing their properties yet except for select few (Compass, Heart of the Oasis, and Bubble).
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post #4378 of 5945
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredgunner View Post

The way I have it now, if you have no armor then you won't be eating bullets. Bullet count seems to be even between the player and NPCs, it's quite low overall so you'll want to avoid being shot. Seems good so far, like Mod Pack 2013 for SoC except with better weapon handling.
Cats and dogs go down very easily now, after my tweaking. These petty creatures shouldn't be bullet sponges. I haven't found any Bloodsuckers yet to test. I know how to change the radius for the telepathic attack from Controllers and Poltergeists, but still nothing for damage. They're easy enough to take out from a distance though since they're so slow.
I made artifacts worthwhile now. They're worth a lot, though I didn't get around to changing their properties yet except for select few (Compass, Heart of the Oasis, and Bubble).

I didn't mean that I get hit a lot by bullets... if I do, I die at the 2nd or 3rd shot (not accounting for bleeding).

Cats and dogs weren't that bad: they died with a single "slug" shot. Cats were specially fragile.

Regarding artifacts... its a bit weird if you ask me. I took a look into the configs of the game and... some artifacts do give you a nice boost against bullets... but I haven't found any (in the config) that actually EATS radiation. So, you have to combine them with those boxes to use them. Its even more of a pita than before.

I don't know whose idea was to make the artifact system like this but... it makes no sense. They are super super heavy on their own, ALSO require containers to carry them AND ssp99 eats your whole stamina. Result? If you go artifact hunting you have to actually carry your normal suit (it will take forever with the stamina recovery of the SSP-99) plus all the other stuff... even if its just by your side. And because the Ecologist suit is so fragile, you also need to carry stuff to repair it on the road. Not talking about "being shoot" fragile, or being bitten fragile... nope, just getting into fire anomalies gets your suit distroyed in no time. Just as if it were made of crystal, and all after a cost of 85.000 RU. Ah! BTW, you can't upgrade any of it at Cardan. Awesome.

Also, with sniper I can carry weight up until 155kg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So... after 40kg I lose stamina very quickly, but I can carry up until 155kg rolleyes.gif Somebody please explain me this.

Oh and, BTW, the SSP99 gets teared a part rather easily... by fire anomalies. Nope, not those that produce a flame... just being into it. And rather quickly, if you ask me.
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post #4379 of 5945
I knew I was going to have to grind through Zaton to acquire enough money to upgrade. This is why I chose assault, because I knew I was going to have to be a pack rat for gear and equipment. Doesn't help really considering I have to eat every 5 minutes.mad.gif
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post #4380 of 5945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cykososhull View Post

I knew I was going to have to grind through Zaton to acquire enough money to upgrade. This is why I chose assault, because I knew I was going to have to be a pack rat for gear and equipment. Doesn't help really considering I have to eat every 5 minutes.mad.gif

Yea, I started a new game as assault and was wondering about cheating / edit that constant need for tucker, you have a 'gutsful' after a while of seeing the moaning tummy icon mad.gif
THAT is would be an easy fix compared with the lads struggles in the last have a dozen posts.
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