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post #571 of 8107
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGuru View Post
Nah, its all good. I look forward to it.

What cooling are you using and what board?
Cooling will make all the diff.
It's via the PC in my signature. I know this board/RAM can do the measly 313MHz FSB/626MHz RAM needed for 5GHz on this CPU, because it routinely does 400MHz FSB/800MHz RAM for my Core 2 Duo E8600. So I think I can rule out the board and RAM? Cooling should be good enough to run into Windows and grab a screenshot/validation at least?

All I'm left with thinking is CPU voltage (or something else I'm missing). Looking at the chart on the first page, a Pentium 4 631 at 1.77V and 1.76V is getting 5.5GHz and 6GHz respectively, and I can't even 5GHz with a fair bit over 1.8V!
post #572 of 8107
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Yr using air cooling. Cooling is a big part of it. It goes air, water, stage, dice, LN2 and liquid helium (i think) which is probably excessive. The colder your chip is the higher overclock you can achieve...roughly speaking. A lot of the higher overclocks are done with extreme cooling.
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post #573 of 8107
Those are probably using Dice, LN2, or Phase for cooling while you are using a budget air heatsink. I'm not knocking the Xiggy S-1283, but it's not really built for that type of usage and probably can't handle the amount of heat produced with that much voltage. I know my Hyper 212+ with a pair of Yate Loon High Speed Fans in Push/Pull couldn't and that is a little better heatsink than the S-1283 (it has more heatpipes).

If you can get the room cold enough it might be able to do it. Last Dec when it was below zero out I turned off the heat and opened the sliding door in my room to the outside to be able to do some overclocking. I was able to add a good 300MHz to my OC with the room about 40F compared to it's usual 70F. It's a bit late in the spring for that now, but you might give it a try when the sun is down or try putting the case next to a room air conditioner and crank it up all the way to see if that will help.
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post #574 of 8107
for epic air cooling use the cold winter air or a window air conditioner...
i used a roll of duct tape and a cardboard box on a window a/c unit with some dryer vents and get some great idle and load temps.... of coarse this isn't a 24/7 situation... just for a suicide run here and there..
    
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post #575 of 8107
I understand the cooling I'm using is not going to get me 7GHz or anything, but it fails to even attempt to boot Windows like it's unstable versus shutting down due to heat. I could care less if it idles at 90C for a few minutes (which I don't think it even would?). I just want to run into Windows and grab the validation/screenshot. I can do that with 4.8GHz, but not 5GHz. Is 5GHz+ on air nearly impossible on a Pentium 4?
post #576 of 8107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Garnet View Post
I understand the cooling I'm using is not going to get me 7GHz or anything, but it fails to even attempt to boot Windows like it's unstable versus shutting down due to heat. I could care less if it idles at 90C for a few minutes (which I don't think it even would?). I just want to run into Windows and grab the validation/screenshot. I can do that with 4.8GHz, but not 5GHz. Is 5GHz+ on air nearly impossible on a Pentium 4?
it needs to be colder to be stable at higher oc/volts

look at this was on a single stage phase -55c

http://hwbot.org/community/submissio...520_4900.2_mhz
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post #577 of 8107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Garnet View Post
I understand the cooling I'm using is not going to get me 7GHz or anything, but it fails to even attempt to boot Windows like it's unstable versus shutting down due to heat. I could care less if it idles at 90C for a few minutes (which I don't think it even would?). I just want to run into Windows and grab the validation/screenshot. I can do that with 4.8GHz, but not 5GHz. Is 5GHz+ on air nearly impossible on a Pentium 4?
You are missing the point. Air cooling will reach a point of diminishing returns and once it gets there it might be able to keep the temp below the thermal shutdown temp, but not below what Windows will boot into. There is a considerable difference between those two temps. Once it reaches that point, adding more vcore isn't going to help anything. All you can do is try to increase the cooling efficiency of your setup by either lowering the ambient room temps or add additional fans.
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post #578 of 8107
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSmurf View Post
You are missing the point. Air cooling will reach a point of diminishing returns and once it gets there it might be able to keep the temp below the thermal shutdown temp, but not below what Windows will boot into. There is a considerable difference between those two temps. Once it reaches that point, adding more vcore isn't going to help anything. All you can do is try to increase the cooling efficiency of your setup by either lowering the ambient room temps or add additional fans.
Well, I'm still learning alot of things, and I didn't know there was a threshold upon which the PC wouldn't boot. I only knew of the shutdown threshold.

This is something in the BIOS itself and not Windows, right? The shutdown happens BEFORE Windows even goes to begin to boot.

Whenever the CPU voltage is set high enough, I get greeted with a "CPU Overvoltage" and then it says "Press F1 to continue". With too little voltage, I am able to pass that, but then it does go to load Windows and resets back into the BIOS (which I think is a symptom of a CPU with not enough voltage). If I raise the voltage, then it doesn't even get that far. As soon as it flashes "Press F1 to continue", it shuts down.

So this sounds like a thermal limit? Ah, I was hoping for 5GHz. Oh well. Thanks for the help anyway.
post #579 of 8107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Garnet View Post
Well, I'm still learning alot of things, and I didn't know there was a threshold upon which the PC wouldn't boot. I only knew of the shutdown threshold.

This is something in the BIOS itself and not Windows, right? The shutdown happens BEFORE Windows even goes to begin to boot.

Whenever the CPU voltage is set high enough, I get greeted with a "CPU Overvoltage" and then it says "Press F1 to continue". With too little voltage, I am able to pass that, but then it does go to load Windows and resets back into the BIOS (which I think is a symptom of a CPU with not enough voltage). If I raise the voltage, then it doesn't even get that far. As soon as it flashes "Press F1 to continue", it shuts down.

So this sounds like a thermal limit? Ah, I was hoping for 5GHz. Oh well. Thanks for the help anyway.
It's essentially thermally induced instability. It isn't a hard limit that is hard coded into the bios, cpu, OS, etc. but just a by-product of the amount of heat being generated causing the cpu to be unstable. That happens well before the cpu hits the thermal limit hard coded to prevent it from burning up.

When you OC as much as you are trying for that 5GHz you are well beyond what would be stable. As you keep pushing that OC higher it becomes even less stable so the system will reboot due to the instability. Going through the post process (all of hardware initialization that takes place when you first power on the computer) doesn't put as much stress on the system as trying to boot into Windows. Depending on how close to absolute thermally induced instability you get that reboot might take place as soon as Windows starts to load to as late as a few seconds after it finishes loading.

Based on your description it would appear that you are right at the ragged edge. Until you can achieve better cooling you aren't going to get any higher.
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post #580 of 8107
That seems to make sense. I was just having a wondering suspicion about how it ALWAYS terminates/shuts down right as the "Press F1 to Continue" text flashes up, like the BIOS is what's shutting it down.

Temperatures were at ~68C though according to BIOS readings (which is typically higher than programs report).

I guess I'll have to settle for 4.8GHz on air. Now I'm off to get this thing out and put the Core 2 Duo back in.
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