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post #10701 of 13132
Quote:
So RAID is just as effective as ever.
Some evidence would be nice.

I happen to like the following two comments:

1)
Quote:
A low-end SSD beats the snot out of a 5-drive RAID 0 config. Just get a small SSD for your boot drive and then a terabyte HDD for storage if you don't want to spend too much. Heck, you alreasy spent $300 on the motherboard and $500 on the videocard...
2)
Quote:
Your games will not run faster using hard drives, the games run faster with top of the line video cards, cpus and good ram....
Homework for the Day: RAID depends on the antiquated technology of electromechanical hard drives, which despite the fact that they're amped up to be able to do so can never achieve 6 GB/sec. transfer rates.

Got to agree with you Ceadderman in not just embracing the "future" without need. MS can take its Touch Screens and shuv them in my opinion. I don't want a greasy screen and I am plenty fast with mouse/keyboard.

Also, the cloud can stay right up there where it belongs. Any fool who trusts his precious info to "cloud computing" is not ready for Prime Time in this age of CyberWarfare and CyberTheft.

I just think RAID is a huge and unrewarding headache; and is obsolete for the same reasons SCSI became a thing of the past.

Btw, I joke a lot but I do sincerely appreciate you guys responding constructively to my anti-RAID stand. That's how we all learn, at least I hope so.
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post #10702 of 13132
Has anyone had a prob with the bios not being able to change the fan speed it use to but now after hooking up 2 4000rpm dalta fans I can not change the fan speed on any fan hook up on the motherboard. the fans stay @ 100%
post #10703 of 13132
Quote:
Originally Posted by crunkazcanbe View Post
Has anyone had a prob with the bios not being able to change the fan speed it use to but now after hooking up 2 4000rpm dalta fans I can not change the fan speed on any fan hook up on the motherboard. the fans stay @ 100%
First off will your fans allow that? I'm sure they will but it's a question that still should be asked.

2nd which BIOS are you using and which headers are you connected to.

3rdly how are your headers set up in the BIOS? Are you running Max RPM of 500 or are you running minimum of 100?

The more information you can give me the better. Don't worry about divulging too much. The problem might be in one of the settings that you're not catching. Such as are you running your fans in PWM or DC? PWM could keep you from properly adjusting the speeds in the BIOS. Sure you could have all your settings in that part setup but it could be that PWM is interfering with your fans speeds.

~Ceadder
 
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post #10704 of 13132
Just for the record, guys, I changed my avatar, because Kahbrohn (and I thought he was a friend ) said my Daffy Duck avatar was as lame@ss and pathetic as I am.

Quote, Unquote!
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post #10705 of 13132
Quote:
Originally Posted by incurablegeek View Post
Just for the record, guys, I changed my avatar, because Kahbrohn (and I thought he was a friend ) said my Daffy Duck avatar was as lame@ss and pathetic as I am.

Quote, Unquote!
I dunno but I do have to say that the avvy now fits you better.



Well guys I'll have my Full Coverage block next week. I'm sooooooo stoked, got so freakin tired of 52-58c NB temps.

Soon as I get the rest of my Starter kit I'm putting this beast under water.

~Ceadder
 
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post #10706 of 13132
Quote:
Originally Posted by incurablegeek View Post
What, may I ask, is this infatuation with RAID? Is everyone trying to re-enact the Life and Times of Sisyphus or it part of being a member in some kind of club for the masochist?

And please don't tell me it's "just in case one of the hard drives fails so we will have backup". That will be my much needed laugh for the day as a reason.
This is way the heck off topic but there are a lot of things I want to address.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post
Actually RAID almost doubles the speed of a conventional HDD...RAID0 doesn't back anything up....
Performance increases are based on what level of RAID you are using. There is no level of RAID that serves as a backup. Period. Drive redundancy is not the same thing. For HDD's any speed increase in RAID suffers from diminishing returns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by incurablegeek View Post
Why oh why does anyone who plays games or is a home user (and not setting up servers for Amazon.com) need a headache like RAID?
RAID is not a headache if you know what you are doing. I run a RAID10 array for my C drive. Never had a problem, and I never plan on going back from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by incurablegeek View Post
...Don't see though, lest some be using that New Math from offshore, how RAID 0 of 2 WD Blacks can save money over an SSD? ...
$/GB. Simple fact: If you need 10TB of storage, you have to take out a second mortgage on the house to do it with SSD's at this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by incurablegeek View Post
...SSD's are truly F-A-S-T and since I use my computers for work (and for annoying you guys ), I save the time I would waste in learning a whole new (and I believe) sure to be obsolete soon technology by buying an SSD (actually 2 of them - and they're about the best investments I have ever made)...SCSI anyone?
If you like FAST, get those 2 SSD's in RAID0. Unlike with HDD's (which as stated suffer from diminishing returns as you increase your array size) SSD's see a linear increase in performance when striped. You will literally double performance/capacity. This linear increase is also why RAID will not be obsolesced. As for SCSI, it is not obsolete... Ever heard of SAS?

Serial
Attached
SCSI

Though evolved, SCSI is still a platform for enterprise standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by incurablegeek View Post
...I don't learn about or need RAID for the same reason that I don't fly in a biplane when I'm going overseas.

Just Google "RAID technology obsolete", "why RAID arrays", etc. and you will find out that RAID is just as obsolete as SCSI and for the same reasons. (and those reasons are your homework for the day )
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrekk
If you like FAST, get those 2 SSD's in RAID0. Unlike with HDD's (which as stated suffer from diminishing returns as you increase your array size) SSD's see a linear increase in performance when striped. You will literally double performance/capacity. This linear increase is also why RAID will not be obsolesced. As for SCSI, it is not obsolete... Ever heard of SAS?

Serial
Attached
SCSI

Though evolved, SCSI is still a platform for enterprise standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by incurablegeek View Post
...RAID depends on the antiquated technology of electromechanical hard drives, which despite the fact that they're amped up to be able to do so can never achieve 6 GB/sec. transfer rates...I just think RAID is a huge and unrewarding headache; and is obsolete for the same reasons SCSI became a thing of the past.

Btw, I joke a lot but I do sincerely appreciate you guys responding constructively to my anti-RAID stand. That's how we all learn, at least I hope so.
I won't repeat my previous statement again. RAID has no dependance on any particular type of drive. You can RAID HDD's and SSD's alike. In fact, the amazing success seen with RAID on SSD's pretty well shows that it is not about to die. I also know there are a lot of animation companies that offload rendering to massive RAID50 server arrays. That won't change any time soon. Raid is extremely rewarding. You get redundancy, increased performance, and more space, depending on the array. It is not difficult to do, or maintain. My RAID array saved my C drive just 6 weeks ago, and I get more space and performance from my array than I ever could at an acceptable price point with SSD's. You also have to remember that there are a lot of different combinations of RAID for different applications.

And once again:

Serial
Attached
SCSI

SCSI is still used prolifically in enterprise level computing to this day.

OK I think I'm done. Questions? Comments? Go ahead, but we should avoid getting so off topic. New thread anyone?
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post #10707 of 13132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrekk View Post
Performance increases are based on what level of RAID you are using. There is no level of RAID that serves as a backup. Period. Drive redundancy is not the same thing. For HDD's any speed increase in RAID suffers from diminishing returns.
Never waivered from that but I will say that RAID 0+1 will suffice as what is written to the RAID 0 array will be written to the RAID +1 HDD as long as that drive =/+ the combined Storage of RAID 0. Correct? So in and of itself it technically is a Backup. Should you have a problem with one of the RAID 0 drives you remove the flawed drive and replace it with a formatted HDD. It's not exactly that simple there are other hoops to jump through but the +1 Drive is supposed to integrate the new drive into the array.

Did I oversimplify? Probably. But that's the gist of what I was getting at.

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post #10708 of 13132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post
Never waivered from that but I will say that RAID 0+1 will suffice as what is written to the RAID 0 array will be written to the RAID +1 HDD as long as that drive =/+ the combined Storage of RAID 0. Correct? So in and of itself it technically is a Backup. Should you have a problem with one of the RAID 0 drives you remove the flawed drive and replace it with a formatted HDD. It's not exactly that simple there are other hoops to jump through but the +1 Drive is supposed to integrate the new drive into the array.

Did I oversimplify? Probably. But that's the gist of what I was getting at.

~Ceadder
It is actually far better to run RAID10 with 4 drives. 0+1 offers less redundancy, and otherwise runs about the same. Mirroring a volume to any unmatched second volume can cause some problems... It's all about planning ahead. The reason why RAID is never considered a backup is because there is still a chance of critical failure. If you want a rock solid setup, use RAID1(+X), which gets backed up to RAID1. Throw in a hotspare and the chances of losing any data in that setup is astronomical.

The whole RAID vs backup argument is a little more complicated than I stated but...

again: If we plan on continuing this discussion, I really think we should start a new thread for it.

EDIT: I might as well clarify: If you accidentally delete system32.exe, in RAID1, the file is deleted on both drives and you are hooped. If you have a backup, then you can recover your system. "Nuff said." Basically RAID doesn't save you from malicious software or user error, a backup does.
Edited by Cyrekk - 8/4/11 at 9:18pm
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post #10709 of 13132
Quote:
$/GB. Simple fact: If you need 10TB of storage, you have to take out a second mortgage on the house to do it with SSD's at this time.
Nothing quite like rendering something simple simplistic. Who in the world would ever use SSD's for storage? That doesn't even warrant a rebuttal. It rebuts itself!

Quote:
If you like FAST, get those 2 SSD's in RAID0. Unlike with HDD's (which as stated suffer from diminishing returns as you increase your array size) SSD's see a linear increase in performance when striped. You will literally double performance/capacity.
A linear increase in performance when striped? What in the world are you doing with SSD's that require they be set up in RAID. I think you had better read up a bit more on what SSD's are used for - and, more importantly, what they are not used for.

Btw, I never brought up the topic of RAID, which somehow seems to be lurking everywhere as kind of an "I've arrived; I RAIDed my HD's" special kind of club.

If you want to talk Enterprise uses of RAID, SCSI, even SATA, then you are correct in saying this is the wrong thread. On that we can agree.

I was just sick and tired of reading about RAID that I thought I would buffoon it a bit. And in the process reveal just how little it has to offer the users on OCN.
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post #10710 of 13132
Quote:
Originally Posted by incurablegeek View Post
Above post.
Dude, you said yourself that you like "FAST." SSD's are fast. n SSD's in RAID0 are n times faster. As far as the $/GB, I used an argumentative tool referred to as reductio ab absurdum to exemplify my point, if you want a real world consumer level example, here it is: I personally will never run a boot drive on my rig with less than 1TB of space. It is simply how I do things. To accomplish this with SSD's is far too expensive for my taste, therefor I use smaller HDD's in RAID so that I get the desired amount of drive space, with enhanced performance and redundancy, within my budget. Never looking back.
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