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Just a reminder: RAID-0 isn't worth it - Page 4

post #31 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Fire
i have to agree with big on this one. when you OS stripe or raid 0 all information is divided up between the hdd's so if you have say 20 mbs of info with 4 hdd's its 5 mbs for each hdd which is much faster than one hdd writing 20mbs. its simple logic.
EDIT: and no, not EVERYONE does a fresh install ever heard of an image?
Simple logic if you are ignorant of how a hard drive works. The doubling you speak of is only for sustained sequential transfer rates, basically meaning how fast the drive could serve up data if it was reading a single large file with zero fragmentation. The modern 7200rpm drive can do 65MByte/Second or more. That is a lot of data in a single second. If you RAID-0 it, then it can do 130MB/s sustained. WOW! Isn't that great?

But wait, you forgot that most files aren't 20MB each and that the drive will actually have to seek. Think about a single drive 7200rpm for a moment. The average seek time is say 12mS, but that's over the full stoke of the drive. So most of your windows data and apps fit in 50GB. So lets say the average seek in this area is 5mS. So how much data could I have been reading in that 5mS. 65MB/s divided by 200 = 325KBytes in 5mS. That's still much larger the average file accessed by the operating system. So seeking eats up a significant amount of time. In fact, all these websites I've provided links to prove that most programs, including games, spend their time doing short seeks and not transfering data. RAID-0 does nothing to help seeking and in fact hurts seeking a little bit because now you are waiting for two drives to seek to the correct location instead of just one, and your RAID-0 disk is only as fast as the slowest disk.

So sequential transfer rate is only ONE components to drive performance. Seeking is another (specifically short seeking, which most manufacturers don't spec). And as said before the tuning of the drive and cache will also affect performance. So your logic is flawed if you think doubling sequential transfer rate will double performance.

I started this thread as a service to educate many people on this board about some false conceptions about RAID0. Feel free to keep the questions coming.
     
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post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweako_420
What about raid 5?
It has the slight benefit of raid 0 with the added reliability of raid 1!
Yes, RAID 5 certainly increases reliability. However, there really isn't much of a performance increase from the RAID 0 in that array which we've been discussing.
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post #33 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweako_420
What about raid 5?
It has the slight benefit of raid 0 with the added reliability of raid 1!
The problem with RAID-5 is that is requires a lot of processing power to generate the error correction codes, so writes to a RAID-5 system are usually much slower than single drive would write unless you have an uber expesive RAID controller.
     
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post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by briank
RAID-0 will give you a 0-5% increase in performance in most applications and games. And it will decrease your reliability by 50% as well as cost you twice as much.

Some things you should know:
RAID-0 only increases the sequential performance of a hard drive. So it looks nice in the benchies but not so useful for anything but video editing. You're not doubling your performance with RAID-0, just the sequential transfer rate.
Hard drive performance is decided by a number of things: sequential transfer rate, average seek time, track-to-track seek time, cache size and how the format and cache are designed (server or desktop use).
The reason many people think RAID-0 feels faster compared to their old single drive setup are the following:
They replaced an old drive with 2 faster new drives. Just a single one of these more modern drives would be much faster.
The next reason is that they did a fresh install of windows. Windows always hauls arse when you just install it, but as you install software it slows down...

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2101

I don't know what you have been smokin.... But RAID 0 is Blazin I have raid 0 setup over 2 250 GB SATA drives. It smokes my Friends system (almoste same config as mine) Without RAID. It is true raid can be a pain in the a55, but once you have it up and working it is pretty solid. It is a pain if a drive goes bad....but i haven't had a drive go bad yet and i've been running my RAID config for a year and a half. RAID is da shi7 what is da shi7.
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post #35 of 47
I have my stripe set to 128Kb and I do write large files quite often. I record movies and TV quite regularly, (a movie with good resolution is about 8GIG), not to mention the large AutoCad, Photoshop and Accsess files. Add that in with some large iteration sequences in MATLab while I am watching TV and surfing the net and you will see the Raid 0 really stands out as a winner. I would'nt even concider myself an avid computer user and I see some great benifits. As long as your drives are reliable I think Raid 0 is a winner. I have being serously thinking about dumping my (2) new Raptors for (4) SCSI 15K drives in Raid 0. If I could get such a large gains with these drives then imagine what I could do with the SCSI.
Great thread by the way BrianK makes some good points.
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post #36 of 47
This subject gets posted every 1-2 months and it is amazing that each OP feels offended by the opposition to their post and then offends others by pushing their view, when a simple change in the title and approach would be all that is needed.

There are many reviews on RAID and in particular RAID-0 on their performance and benefits. The very dated, coming up for 2yrs old, Andatech review seems to be the one that is regurgitated every time.

With any mechanical storage device (read Hard Drive), data backups are a must and it does not matter what drive type they are stored on or configuration (1 or many drives) ... there has been discussions here on RAID-0 arrays and their probability... but do consider that drives are made to a reliable standard and again it comes down to backing up on a regular basis - well as often as you feel that you cannot loose that particular data.

As for performance, there is an increase with any application that needs to access the drive. So if a Game or such does not access the drive during operation then agreed there is no performance gain.

Also consider who your target audience is and where you are discussing this subject matter - an OC'ing forum, where people try to extract every last extra speed from each component within the system. So why not RAID? It does help the I/O side of the rig.

If you are using your system for business then the risks should be reviewed, and the appropriate actions taken.

If others are saying that it is good for them, then that is their risk assessment, it does not necessarily need to be yours.

Read, review and make your own judgment call...

Had the thread title been "RAID-0 - Is it worth it for you?" You will have received a very different approach from members.
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post #37 of 47
meh...i have tioo much important stuff, and i'm too lazy to backup my files regularly....non RAID is fine with me....
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post #38 of 47
I love my raid array and I dont think I would go back to a single drive unless it was the new raptor with the 16meg cache. I backup all my "important" files abut once a week and I also have irregular backups to my thumb drives and the other 160 Gb drive I have.

Edit not everone has SCSI and a normal PCI adapter which I would guess you are using would choke that drives performance.
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post #39 of 47
I was thinking about raid 0 with adding another WD2500 sata2 250gig 16mb cache HDD
but im a nublet so would i have to format reinstall windows + load the drivers from a floppy?
    
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post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen
I was thinking about raid 0 with adding another WD2500 sata2 250gig 16mb cache HDD
but im a nublet so would i have to format reinstall windows + load the drivers from a floppy?

yep, you'll loose all your data when you setup a RAID config... you'll have to reformat your drives as a single drive after you use the utility to set them up.
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