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[LAT] Runaway Prius hits 90 mph before stopping with aid of CHP - Page 5

post #41 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by iandh View Post
Hopefully people that dense just give up and crash off a cliff... I mean, damn, have people never even run out of gas, had the motor stall, and had to pull over without power steering?

If you haven't experienced that, then GET THE HELL OFF THE ROAD. You're a danger to yourself and everyone around you. What are you going to do if you run out of gas, go carreening into the median and cause a giant pileup?

God I hate people so much.
???

That's an interesting philosophy: learn to drive without power steering, or die?

And who the hell runs out of gas in the middle of the road? If you're smart enough to know what to do when your power steering fails, you'd probably avoid that situation all together by looking at this pretty, red needle-thing that is in between F and E.

There's not many other reasons why an otherwise healthy car would lose power steering. Unless the belt slips or there's a battery or electrical problem, a normal driver probably would never have to experience a loss of power steering nowadays.

I digress, it's the same concept anyway. If you want to go right, turn right...only with much more force.
post #42 of 400
As I said to my Prius driving colleague today - my car may only do 17MPG, but it actually stops and starts when I want it to.
    
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post #43 of 400
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Originally Posted by lemans81 View Post
If you put your car in neutral it will then be freewheeling. Auto or manual, when the car is in neutral the engine cannot put power to the wheels. Now that in itself won't stop you, but you will no longer be gaining forward momentum. Also friction will slow you fairly quickly. The only risk is on some cars they don't have a rev limiter...and with the computer gunning the motor it could blow the engine.

But at least you get to live. Really the issue here is that people don't understand cars. Its such a simple issue to solve, you just have to keep your head and use logic to solve the problem.

Case in point, Chevy Cobalts are being recalled due to a steering issue. Basically the electric motor overheats and you lose the power boost. A lot of people these days have never driven a vehicle without power steering, so they think they have lost steering and give up and crash.
Definitely agree with you on this. I'm surprised so many people didn't know to put the car into neutral in these situations. This is very basic knowledge. Most modern cars have rev limiter, so you're not even going to damage the engine by putting it into neutral.

Also as TestECull said, they need to go back to cable throttle, DBW throttle is inferior to cable throttle in response and feel. I drove a couple cars with DBW, there's a noticeable lag between pressing the pedal and actual throttle response. It makes smooth throttle input more difficult.
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post #44 of 400
I'll admit I ran out of gas in the middle of the road going about 45 before. I just thought...aww piss, coasted and turned into a parking lot. Its really not that hard to steer a car without power steering except at really low speeds.
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post #45 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by iandh View Post
Hopefully people that dense just give up and crash off a cliff... I mean, damn, have people never even run out of gas, had the motor stall, and had to pull over without power steering?

If you haven't experienced that, then GET THE HELL OFF THE ROAD. You're a danger to yourself and everyone around you. What are you going to do if you run out of gas, go carreening into the median and cause a giant pileup?

God I hate people so much.
Yeah I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desidero View Post
So what you're saying is that people should be stupid and run out of gas more often as a learning experience?

I'll get right on that...
I do think people should experience more and have to learn to drive. When I learned to drive, we got a really good snow, my dad took me out on unplowed roads(in a new neighborhood that had no houses) had me drive at what seemed to be a comfortable speed, then he pulled the hand brake. It seemed mean at the time, but it taught me how to correct a skid. And the worst thing that could have happened is that we got stuck.

So yes, I think everyone for a drivers license test should have the car engine shut off, and they should have to steer a car into a parking spot without help of the power brakes/steering. That would simulate a car dying. I also feel you should also have knowledge of how to drive a car with a manual transmission.

EDIT: I looked into it and the prius can be shifted into neutral when moving, just like a normal car.
post #46 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by quentin View Post
Things aren't letting up much for Toyota. Did Ford didn't even have it this bad...
Ford had a strikingly similar issue(Defect = out of control). IT was the Firestone Tire Recall on the Explorers in the early 90's. Firestone delivered a tire prone to getting hot, Ford recommended running the tires as low as 20PSI(Which also heats tires up, and causes even the best tires to explode), and drivers were unable to correctly handle the situation. Instead of maintaining speed and direction before gently merging onto the shoulder and slowly stopping, they either swerved, braked suddenly, or both. This caused the top-heavy Explorer to wildly fishtail, the rim of the flat tire then dug into the pavement and over it went. Peppy Hare would be proud of the barrel rolls.

Ford fixed it pretty quickly, tho, and didn't take anywhere near as much backlash over it as I feel Toyota is going to with these runaways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urgrandpasdog View Post
I am in no way defending Toyota, but this guy needed to be told to do something like this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pings View Post
"I pushed the gas pedal to pass a car and it did something kind of funny . . . it jumped and it just stuck there," Sikes, 61, said at a news conference. "As it was going, I was trying the brakes . . . it wasn't stopping."

OK hold on. What type of Prius? He got the golden ticket of Prius'es if this real. He got the accelerator getting stuck problem and the brakes failed in one hole mess? I think this needs to go under investigation. It seam like to me he is mixing Toyota recalls to get out of a ticket. Also why are the major of problems I here about this subject are mostly from old people.
What I understand is that the engine simply overpowered the brakes. The brakes simply weren't strong enough to force the car to stop when the engine was at full throttle. Since the Prius is a hybrid, it's gasoline engine is actually quite weak, but the software issue that jammed the throttle open on it could have also allowed full power to the electric motor as well. This motor has boatloads of torque(More than the gas engine can ever hope to make AFAIK), the combination thereof overpowering the brakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemans81 View Post
If you put your car in neutral it will then be freewheeling. Auto or manual, when the car is in neutral the engine cannot put power to the wheels. Now that in itself won't stop you, but you will no longer be gaining forward momentum. Also friction will slow you fairly quickly. The only risk is on some cars they don't have a rev limiter...and with the computer gunning the motor it could blow the engine.

But at least you get to live. Really the issue here is that people don't understand cars. Its such a simple issue to solve, you just have to keep your head and use logic to solve the problem.

Case in point, Chevy Cobalts are being recalled due to a steering issue. Basically the electric motor overheats and you lose the power boost. A lot of people these days have never driven a vehicle without power steering, so they think they have lost steering and give up and crash.
Manuals tend to lock into gear when on power. I can easily pull mine into neutral if I match my RPM to EXACTLY what would be turned if it coasted, it then slides out as if I had the clutch down. If I'm applying even 1/10 throttle, however, it locks into gear and I can't jerk it out. Every standard vehicle I've driven is like this, not just my F150.

But, the clutch pedal would ensure you could, so it's just a random moot point. Just firewall the clutch and it slides out effortlessly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iandh View Post
Hopefully people that dense just give up and crash off a cliff... I mean, damn, have people never even run out of gas, had the motor stall, and had to pull over without power steering?

If you haven't experienced that, then GET THE HELL OFF THE ROAD. You're a danger to yourself and everyone around you. What are you going to do if you run out of gas, go carreening into the median and cause a giant pileup?

God I hate people so much.
I drove my F150 for a week with no power boost because a line blew off. I had the luxury of multiple belts, so I just snipped the one going to the pump to preserve it and went on my way. If my fat, lazy, weak ass can handle a heavy truck with no power boost, the typical driver can too.

No excuse for not being able to handle lack of power boost, I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula7 View Post
Couldn't have said it better. +1. I, personally, don't see the benefit in all the electronic mumbo jumbo. Cars should stay fully mechanical in these aspects especially. What are they trying to prove/save/show with all this fly-by-wire stuff?

Your cars were fine before all this, in fact, they were pretty top notch. Just make it stop.
But it's super-awesome electrical technology that frees you from the stone age!~!.1>!o1y1oj!one!

It's put there for the same reason everyone wants satnav, headed seats, multi-section HVAC, the ability for their radio to play any file format from any source under the sun, auto-parking systems and the like on a car they drive up and down the same path to work they've taken for the past 15 years. People just don't want to drive their car, so the more the car does for them(And the more gadgets it has for those mundane things they still have to do), the better it sells.

Blame Society. Toyota just catered to that. 'Course, they screwed it up and it's now biting them in the ass.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iandh View Post
So you're saying everyone that has ever run out of gas (which is pretty much everyone who has ever driven) is stupid?

GOOD LOGIC
Heh, I agree with you. I had it happen several times with my F150. Most of the time, it was the fact that my gas gauge only reads on the upper half of the tank, once my tank is half empty it shows completely empty. I simply drove too far in that mode. I also had one running dry where the fuel pump sprung a huge leak and pissed 5 times as much gas out onto the ground as what actually made it into the engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodpigeon4 View Post
As I said to my Prius driving colleague today - my car may only do 17MPG, but it actually stops and starts when I want it to.
Lol, nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljason8eg View Post
I'll admit I ran out of gas in the middle of the road going about 45 before. I just thought...aww piss, coasted and turned into a parking lot. Its really not that hard to steer a car without power steering except at really low speeds.
I've done that out in the sticks. I've even run out going up a hill, then mysteriously found a few more drops going back down and made my way to a gas station that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemans81 View Post
Yeah I agree.



I do think people should experience more and have to learn to drive. When I learned to drive, we got a really good snow, my dad took me out on unplowed roads(in a new neighborhood that had no houses) had me drive at what seemed to be a comfortable speed, then he pulled the hand brake. It seemed mean at the time, but it taught me how to correct a skid. And the worst thing that could have happened is that we got stuck.

So yes, I think everyone for a drivers license test should have the car engine shut off, and they should have to steer a car into a parking spot without help of the power brakes/steering. That would simulate a car dying. I also feel you should also have knowledge of how to drive a car with a manual transmission.

EDIT: I looked into it and the prius can be shifted into neutral when moving, just like a normal car.
Hrm...

1. "Test ability to control a car with a dead engine". Agree 100%, stuff breaks all the time.
2. "Learn manual" Agree as well. Even if they never touch a clutch pedal again, they still need to know how to properly drive a car with one. They might have no choice but to drive one some day.
3. Do you know if that fail-safe is done electronically or mechanically?
Edited by TestECull - 3/9/10 at 1:22am
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post #47 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by awdrifter View Post
Also as TestECull said, they need to go back to cable throttle, DBW throttle is inferior to cable throttle in response and feel. I drove a couple cars with DBW, there's a noticeable lag between pressing the pedal and actual throttle response. It makes smooth throttle input more difficult.
Throttle cables have downsides as well, when they get old they fray and can get caught just as easily. If you replace them every 12-15 years it shouldn't be an issue though. But anything mechanical can jam as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TestECull View Post
Manuals tend to lock into gear when on power. I can easily pull mine into neutral if I match my RPM to EXACTLY what would be turned if it coasted, it then slides out as if I had the clutch down. If I'm applying even 1/10 throttle, however, it locks into gear and I can't jerk it out. Every standard vehicle I've driven is like this, not just my F150.

But, the clutch pedal would ensure you could, so it's just a random moot point. Just firewall the clutch and it slides out effortlessly.
Yes and no, they do lock but I have yet in my experience to find one that if you gave it a firm quick tug it would come out of gear. Mind you it would grind and scream, but you could still do it. But as you said even if it did, push the clutch in. OR shut the engine off, just make sure you don't pull the key all the way back....lol the locking steering wheel might suck.
post #48 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by quentin View Post
???

That's an interesting philosophy: learn to drive without power steering, or die?

And who the hell runs out of gas in the middle of the road? If you're smart enough to know what to do when your power steering fails, you'd probably avoid that situation all together by looking at this pretty, red needle-thing that is in between F and E.
Yes, it's IMPOSSIBLE to run out of gas for any reason other than stupidity.

You're also stupid if you run over a nail and blow a tire. Smart people have specialized eagle vision and don't run over nails. In fact, the really smart people kiss the nails just right with their tires to kick them into the path of the stupid people.
post #49 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by TestECull View Post
Ford had a strikingly similar issue(Defect = out of control). IT was the Firestone Tire Recall on the Explorers in the early 90's. Firestone delivered a tire prone to getting hot, Ford recommended running the tires as low as 20PSI(Which also heats tires up, and causes even the best tires to explode), and drivers were unable to correctly handle the situation. Instead of maintaining speed and direction before gently merging onto the shoulder and slowly stopping, they either swerved, braked suddenly, or both. This caused the top-heavy Explorer to wildly fishtail, the rim of the flat tire then dug into the pavement and over it went. Peppy Hare would be proud of the barrel rolls.

Ford fixed it pretty quickly, tho, and didn't take anywhere near as much backlash over it as I feel Toyota is going to with these runaways.
Yes, that was what I was referring to, the great Bridgestone Firestone massacre of '99. In reality, the nature of both defects are equally deadly, but due to Ford's art of denial and misdirection ("Firestone tires, not ours!!"), they used Bridgestone as a human shield and managed to recover quite quickly from what seemed to be the worse thing that could ever happen to a car company. Toyota can't quite weasel their way out of this one, not if there's still news reports on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iandh View Post
Yes, it's IMPOSSIBLE to run out of gas for any reason other than stupidity.

You're also stupid if you run over a nail and blow a tire. Smart people have specialized eagle vision and don't run over nails. In fact, the really smart people kiss the nails just right with their tires to kick them into the path of the stupid people.
9 times out of 10, it's stupidity.

And I don't know if you're responding to me in that second part, but I said nothing about blowouts, much less a statement that only stupid people get blowouts. I'm not quite sure how to correlate running out of gas with a blowout...Maybe you wanna save the bitter sarcasm for a more appropriate post?
post #50 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by quentin View Post
And I don't know if you're responding to me in that second part, but I said nothing about blowouts, much less a statement that only stupid people get blowouts. I'm not quite sure how to correlate running out of gas with a blowout...Maybe you wanna save the bitter sarcasm for a more appropriate post?
It was not "bitter sarcasm", it was a satire of the absurdity of your statement that if one runs out of gas, it is due to stupidity. There are myriad reasons one might run out of gas. I've run out of gas several times, and none of them were due to stupidity. According to your logic, that is statistically improbable.
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